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Flying a Permit Aircraft on FAA Licence

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Flying a Permit Aircraft on FAA Licence

Old 19th May 2021, 13:53
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Flying a Permit Aircraft on FAA Licence

I have someone wanting to buy a share in Permit Aircraft who has a FAA ppl. Although I understand from a CAA examiner that he can fly a Part 21 aircraft from any ICAO country, it seems impossible to get an answer from anyone for a LAA Permit aircraft. Several days of e mails and phone calls to the LAA and CAA have so far resulted in contradictory information followed by a confession that they don't know. I know that it used to be possible because we used to have a shareholder with a FAA licence and I have copies of letters from both parties confirming it. However, since our excursion into the EASA world, no-one seems to know anything. Personally, I can't see how arrangements under EASA can have any influence on the relationship between the FAA and the CAA which doesn't involve any kind of EASA rules.
I wondered if anybody here can help.
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Old 19th May 2021, 16:25
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Logically I cannot see that it makes any difference, if he holds an ICAO PPL licence, whether it is a Part-21 types or a Permit to fly aircraft. A UK PPL holder is given an exemption to fly a Microlite in the UK following a checkout from a Microlite instructor. Any issue, if one exists, will likely to be between an aircraft with a C of A and an aircraft with a C of A (Microlite). The source to find out is to contact directly the Department of Transport (General Aviation dept.). The CAA will need to ask them anyway but may takes weeks/months to respond.

The government to simplify things adopted the whole of EU (EASA) legislation into UK law with the aim to amend over time. The CAA/ Dept. of Transport is doing this but it will take time because of the complexity. The Dept. of Transport are in a better position to give an answer in the shortest time.

Last edited by Fl1ingfrog; 19th May 2021 at 17:01.
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Old 19th May 2021, 16:41
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ANO 2016, Article 150 says no problem.
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Old 19th May 2021, 17:45
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Thank you so much for two very helpful responses. That should help us to make some progress.
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Old 19th May 2021, 23:59
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A FAA licence does not include Radiotelephony privileges outside of mainland USA therefore to operate the radio in a UK registered aircraft the FAA licencesed pilot would need to hold either a FCC Restricted Radiotelephone Permit (FCC 605-FRC) validated by Article 150 or a UK issued FRTOL
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Old 20th May 2021, 22:50
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Permission is not quite automatic, the procedures are here - but yes, so far as I know, national and part 21 aeroplanes are treated identically.

G

https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-ind...n-UK-airspace/
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Old 21st May 2021, 13:24
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Thanks Genghis for the that link and to Whopity for the RT info. I have now sold my share (sad). This weekend is the first for 15 years without an aeroplane and what am I doing? Helping with the Permit renewal.
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Old 25th May 2021, 09:02
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Having convinced the potential buyer to buy a share in a Permit aircraft, the CAA have just stuck the boot in by declaring that UK residents will have to convert a FAA licence before the end of 2021.

Can anyone tell me what is the easiest route to convert a current FAA PPL? II believe that it used to be via a NPPL and then upgrade as required.
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Old 25th May 2021, 21:19
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If they have over 100hrs, it's two written exams (HPL and air law) and a skill test.

Page 596 of CAP 804: https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33...015REFONLY.pdf

Don't worry about the "for reference only" stamped on every page, CAA is still using this document as gospel.

G
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Old 27th May 2021, 19:07
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Originally Posted by pulse1 View Post
Having convinced the potential buyer to buy a share in a Permit aircraft, the CAA have just stuck the boot in by declaring that UK residents will have to convert a FAA licence before the end of 2021.
The CAA decision to discontinue accepting US pilot certificates, pursuant to the derogation in article 12(4) of the Aircrew Regulation, has no bearing on non-Part-21 (annex I) aircraft which are registered in the UK. When operated non-commercially such aircraft are not within the scope of retained EU law, which is where the residence condition is made. For a UK-registered non-Part-21 aircraft the relevant regulations are those in articles 137 and 150 of the Air Navigation Order 2016. Together these render valid an appropriate ICAO Annex 1-compliant licence.

Unfortunately the ANO has been badly amended by SI 2019 No. 645 so that a licence granted or rendered valid under the Aircrew Regulation rather than the ANO is required to fly, in non-commercial operations, any aircraft registered elsewhere than in the UK when the operator resides or is established in the UK. ANO, Art 148(3)(c).

A copy of CAP804 without the watermark is available on the UK National Archives website. https://webarchive.nationalarchives....searchable.pdf
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