Time for a new school
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I'd be willing to place a small wager that the OP isn't getting the basics of handling the aeroplane right in the circuit - speed and height control, properly balanced turns, lookout etc.
"Knowing how to do" stuff because you've picked it up as a passenger when flying with a P1 who isn't an instructor is not the same as learning how to do it.
Instructors have the same difficulty with people who've spent years at home on their flight sims. They can be very difficult to teach because they are full of bad habits and think they know what they are doing.
I don't know if this applies to the OP, but like I say I'd put a few Bob on it
"Knowing how to do" stuff because you've picked it up as a passenger when flying with a P1 who isn't an instructor is not the same as learning how to do it.
Instructors have the same difficulty with people who've spent years at home on their flight sims. They can be very difficult to teach because they are full of bad habits and think they know what they are doing.
I don't know if this applies to the OP, but like I say I'd put a few Bob on it
You could say: "I seem to have got stuck and I am clearly not 'getting' what you are telling me. So I am going to try another instructor to see if a different style can get through to me".
Or: Ask them to fly whatever it is you are struggling with while you 'follow-through' by lightly holding your yoke to feel the inputs they are making. Ask them to keep up a running commentary while they fly on what they are doing, where they are looking, what they are going to do next and what corrections they are making, Ask questions about anything at all that you don't understand.
Remember, you are the customer, and you are the one paying for the fuel and their time. They work for you. Don't keep spending money if you are not getting good service. Don't waste money just to save someone's feelings.
It is not a failure if you want to change instructors - it happens. I changed instructor or was rostered a different instructor during my commercial training, and sometimes a particular thing became clearer with a different person teaching me.
You might simply respond better to a different style, and any instructor should appreciate this and endorse a change.
Good luck
Or: Ask them to fly whatever it is you are struggling with while you 'follow-through' by lightly holding your yoke to feel the inputs they are making. Ask them to keep up a running commentary while they fly on what they are doing, where they are looking, what they are going to do next and what corrections they are making, Ask questions about anything at all that you don't understand.
Remember, you are the customer, and you are the one paying for the fuel and their time. They work for you. Don't keep spending money if you are not getting good service. Don't waste money just to save someone's feelings.
It is not a failure if you want to change instructors - it happens. I changed instructor or was rostered a different instructor during my commercial training, and sometimes a particular thing became clearer with a different person teaching me.
You might simply respond better to a different style, and any instructor should appreciate this and endorse a change.
Good luck
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I've re-read the OP and the other responses.
It's worth also pointing out that your experience in the circuit phase of your training is actually quite normal. It takes that long. And each lesson can indeed feel as if you're not getting anywhere - you focus on the things that were wrong last time and lo and behold! things you were doing ok now mess up. This is because you don't have the brain space to learn lots at the same time. Only when a lot of stuff is automatic can you move on.
Circuit work is intense and hard.
You are expecting too much of yourself.
If circuits are getting tiresome (perfectly normal!) ask instructor if you can have a lesson going off and doing something else for a change. They should be ok with that if you explain your feelings. Get them to show you practice forced landings or steeply banked turns - that'll put a smile on your face.
If they are so inflexible that they won't do what I suggest, then you can be upset and take it further with the CFI.
It's worth also pointing out that your experience in the circuit phase of your training is actually quite normal. It takes that long. And each lesson can indeed feel as if you're not getting anywhere - you focus on the things that were wrong last time and lo and behold! things you were doing ok now mess up. This is because you don't have the brain space to learn lots at the same time. Only when a lot of stuff is automatic can you move on.
Circuit work is intense and hard.
You are expecting too much of yourself.
If circuits are getting tiresome (perfectly normal!) ask instructor if you can have a lesson going off and doing something else for a change. They should be ok with that if you explain your feelings. Get them to show you practice forced landings or steeply banked turns - that'll put a smile on your face.
If they are so inflexible that they won't do what I suggest, then you can be upset and take it further with the CFI.
I've re-read the OP and the other responses.
It's worth also pointing out that your experience in the circuit phase of your training is actually quite normal. It takes that long. And each lesson can indeed feel as if you're not getting anywhere - you focus on the things that were wrong last time and lo and behold! things you were doing ok now mess up. This is because you don't have the brain space to learn lots at the same time. Only when a lot of stuff is automatic can you move on.
Circuit work is intense and hard.
You are expecting too much of yourself.
If circuits are getting tiresome (perfectly normal!) ask instructor if you can have a lesson going off and doing something else for a change. They should be ok with that if you explain your feelings. Get them to show you practice forced landings or steeply banked turns - that'll put a smile on your face.
If they are so inflexible that they won't do what I suggest, then you can be upset and take it further with the CFI.
It's worth also pointing out that your experience in the circuit phase of your training is actually quite normal. It takes that long. And each lesson can indeed feel as if you're not getting anywhere - you focus on the things that were wrong last time and lo and behold! things you were doing ok now mess up. This is because you don't have the brain space to learn lots at the same time. Only when a lot of stuff is automatic can you move on.
Circuit work is intense and hard.
You are expecting too much of yourself.
If circuits are getting tiresome (perfectly normal!) ask instructor if you can have a lesson going off and doing something else for a change. They should be ok with that if you explain your feelings. Get them to show you practice forced landings or steeply banked turns - that'll put a smile on your face.
If they are so inflexible that they won't do what I suggest, then you can be upset and take it further with the CFI.
From memory so I maybbe wrong, I don’t recall there being a lesson in the PPL syllabus that states Circuits & Landings only.
Landings are by far the most difficult thing to learn about flying.
Even though they have to be explained as a process containing steps it’s not a “stepped” process.
You start out by coloring in the numbered blank spots but eventually you have to learn to paint free hand.
It’s part intuition following certain rules.
You can’t sit there and think through a process.
At some point you need to disconnect your brain and what your eyes see needs to go directly to hands and feet without an active thought process.
Last edited by B2N2; 9th May 2021 at 13:30.
From memory so I maybe wrong, I don’t recall there being a lesson in the PPL syllabus that states Circuits & Landings only.
At some point you need to disconnect your brain and what your eyes see needs to go directly to hands and feet without an active thought process.
When I was a senior full time instructor I was the guy who got the "problem" students from junior instructors, almost always the issue was "they can't land". The first thing I did was go to the practice area and then starting at a nose up attitude slowly pitched down and asked the student to tell me when the aircraft was in the level flight attitude. I then covered the airspeed indicator and asked them to show me the climb attitude they would set after takeoff and then the the 65 kt landing configuration final approach attitude. A discouragingly large percentage of the "problem" students failed at all three tasks. The problem was not that they couldn't land it was that they could not fly period.
Sadly these students instructors utterly failed them at teaching the most important part of the PPL syllabus; teaching the foundation skills ( attitudes and movements, straight and level, turns, and climbs and descents).
On a separate note I told all my students that flying instruction had to work for both of us. If my personality was getting in the way of the training I made it clear we needed to talk and I was totally OK with them requesting another instructor. Similarly I passed on a few students to another instructor who I felt was a better match. I also refused to continue teaching a few students who were not interested in putting in the effort to learn.
Sadly these students instructors utterly failed them at teaching the most important part of the PPL syllabus; teaching the foundation skills ( attitudes and movements, straight and level, turns, and climbs and descents).
On a separate note I told all my students that flying instruction had to work for both of us. If my personality was getting in the way of the training I made it clear we needed to talk and I was totally OK with them requesting another instructor. Similarly I passed on a few students to another instructor who I felt was a better match. I also refused to continue teaching a few students who were not interested in putting in the effort to learn.
Im thinking you’ve misunderstood me.
At some point landings need to become a fluid dynamic action instead of step- think- interpret- think- step.
Ballroom dancing you learn by counting 1-2-3-4 at some point that stops and the feeling for the music takes over.
Learning traditional martial arts you learn action and response. At some point you need to stop thinking and start reacting instinctively.
Flying is not that unique that landings are this mysterious art.
The “problem” children I had to fly with were mainly cured by covering the instrument panel with a map and making them fly by looking out of the window and listening to the engine.
sometimes it’s just a personality thing and a different instructor is needed, sometimes just the way of teaching, and another viewpoint puts them right and they carry on successfully with the original guy.
sometimes it’s just a personality thing and a different instructor is needed, sometimes just the way of teaching, and another viewpoint puts them right and they carry on successfully with the original guy.
Ballroom dancing you learn by counting 1-2-3-4 at some point that stops and the feeling for the music takes over.
Learning traditional martial arts you learn action and response. At some point you need to stop thinking and start reacting instinctively.
Flying is not that unique that landings are this mysterious art.
Learning traditional martial arts you learn action and response. At some point you need to stop thinking and start reacting instinctively.
Flying is not that unique that landings are this mysterious art.
A root cause of many accidents is associated with complacency. It is no surprise that very few accidents involve ab initio pilots.
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Years ago, I confided in my instructor that 'flying scares me a little bit'. His reply 'Good. Then you will treat it with the respect it deserves. ' We got on famously, and I completed the PPL in minimum time. I never forgot what Kevin Dearman [Wycombe Air Centre] told me that day. loved the flying, 200 hours, then family got in the way. Good days!.
No, not at all. What your describing is complacency. The most common quote from any performer is "the day that I'm not terrified before going on stage will be the day I need to pack in". Professional performers and without doubt also fighters practice, practice and practice throughout their careers and take nothing for granted. What you appear to be confusing is the benefit of adrenaline when it is focused to the task. Performers learn to use this heightened state to their benefit but it should not be used as a reason to switch off. No performer does that.
A root cause of many accidents is associated with complacency. It is no surprise that very few accidents involve ab initio pilots.
A root cause of many accidents is associated with complacency. It is no surprise that very few accidents involve ab initio pilots.
"At some point landings need to become a fluid dynamic action instead of step- think- interpret- think- step."
Agree. 1700+ hours in Jodel DR1050. Automatic reaction to tailwheel divergence from hard runway centerline was what prevented me having excursions. No time to think and re-calculate forces on my circular slide-rule. ( I hadn't calculated them anyway.)
Agree. 1700+ hours in Jodel DR1050. Automatic reaction to tailwheel divergence from hard runway centerline was what prevented me having excursions. No time to think and re-calculate forces on my circular slide-rule. ( I hadn't calculated them anyway.)
