Alternatives to C210 or Malibu?
Thread Starter
Alternatives to C210 or Malibu?
I have an acquaintance looking for a single engine plane to buy. His requirements:
#1: His wife, who is ill with cancer, must be able to get in to the copilot seat. She has limited physical ability so overwing doors eg PA32R aren't suitable (they tried). Sometimes she can, other times it seems not. I've suggested a Lance or A36 Bonanza anyway with the idea that she can use the front seat while feeling well, and still easily get in the back when not so able.
2: 160 kt cruise or better. Possibly would accept up to 10 kts slower
3: Operate from a sealed 2700' strip, elev. 3100'. In USA southeast summer temps (Aerodrome is NC14 Boone, North Carolina.
4: Range ~500+nm to get from Orlando, FL to Boone. That's about 3hrs at 160kts. No fuel at Boone so the ability to go there directly, then hop over to nearby to get juice on the return is necessary. Alternatively get fuel on the way there and back, but it adds an extra stop and effort for his wife.
4: Turbocharged quite ok. Pressurisation too but not strictly necessary.
So far he's considered C210 & Piper Malibu. Can anyone think of equivalents? Even homebuilts/experimental. I'm having a hard time thinking of anything else.
#1: His wife, who is ill with cancer, must be able to get in to the copilot seat. She has limited physical ability so overwing doors eg PA32R aren't suitable (they tried). Sometimes she can, other times it seems not. I've suggested a Lance or A36 Bonanza anyway with the idea that she can use the front seat while feeling well, and still easily get in the back when not so able.
2: 160 kt cruise or better. Possibly would accept up to 10 kts slower
3: Operate from a sealed 2700' strip, elev. 3100'. In USA southeast summer temps (Aerodrome is NC14 Boone, North Carolina.
4: Range ~500+nm to get from Orlando, FL to Boone. That's about 3hrs at 160kts. No fuel at Boone so the ability to go there directly, then hop over to nearby to get juice on the return is necessary. Alternatively get fuel on the way there and back, but it adds an extra stop and effort for his wife.
4: Turbocharged quite ok. Pressurisation too but not strictly necessary.
So far he's considered C210 & Piper Malibu. Can anyone think of equivalents? Even homebuilts/experimental. I'm having a hard time thinking of anything else.
Last edited by Tinstaafl; 26th Oct 2020 at 18:59.
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182RG, or does he need a six seater?
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Must admit I'm stuck to think of anything else that's fast other than the Extra 400 which with only 27 built is probably a bit of hen's teeth machine - maybe a bit too hot for Boone as well.
Oddly enough, my sister lives in Boone, wonder if she happens to know the couple.
Oddly enough, my sister lives in Boone, wonder if she happens to know the couple.
Fairly specific, and limited niche specified there.
Of course, P210 and Malibu are the only single-engine piston pressurized options. The P210 only has the pilot-side door. Malibu with the aft air-stair door is not particularly easy to access the cockpit either. And, I don't have performance charts at hand, but I'd guess that short runway is pretty tight for the Malibu, certainly on warmer days.
I'd think the unpressuirzed 210s, with two doors, and reasonable takeoff distance, would probably be a good choice. And, I like the idea of the rear-door low wings, A36, PA32 series, too, as you said, allowing an either-or option for pax entry.
Other 2-door low wing models mentioned, Cirrus, and there's the Commander 114, but that doesn't help the passenger in and out.
If budget is no object, the Cirrus jet has an air-stair door, but I'm sure wouldn't fit on the short runway, either.
Never been to Boone (I'm betting it's beautiful country there), but, realistically, how many days per year is that little airstrip accessible due to weather and winds? Or, during the heat of the summer, it's just too short for whatever 150-160 kt aircraft might be chosen? Even on a moderate day, 25C pushes density altitude to 5000' or more.
No information here that you probably didn't already know.
Edit: If you could accept slightly slower speed, the turbocharged Cessna T206 might be one to look at, they actually cruise at a reasonable speed for a utility airframe.
It's a tough problem, high-hot short field and fast travel speeds are more or less opposite ends of the performance spectrum.
I hope your friends can reach an acceptable solution, but realistically it might involve a drive to a larger strip (understanding that's less than ideal).
Of course, P210 and Malibu are the only single-engine piston pressurized options. The P210 only has the pilot-side door. Malibu with the aft air-stair door is not particularly easy to access the cockpit either. And, I don't have performance charts at hand, but I'd guess that short runway is pretty tight for the Malibu, certainly on warmer days.
I'd think the unpressuirzed 210s, with two doors, and reasonable takeoff distance, would probably be a good choice. And, I like the idea of the rear-door low wings, A36, PA32 series, too, as you said, allowing an either-or option for pax entry.
Other 2-door low wing models mentioned, Cirrus, and there's the Commander 114, but that doesn't help the passenger in and out.
If budget is no object, the Cirrus jet has an air-stair door, but I'm sure wouldn't fit on the short runway, either.
Never been to Boone (I'm betting it's beautiful country there), but, realistically, how many days per year is that little airstrip accessible due to weather and winds? Or, during the heat of the summer, it's just too short for whatever 150-160 kt aircraft might be chosen? Even on a moderate day, 25C pushes density altitude to 5000' or more.
No information here that you probably didn't already know.
Edit: If you could accept slightly slower speed, the turbocharged Cessna T206 might be one to look at, they actually cruise at a reasonable speed for a utility airframe.
It's a tough problem, high-hot short field and fast travel speeds are more or less opposite ends of the performance spectrum.
I hope your friends can reach an acceptable solution, but realistically it might involve a drive to a larger strip (understanding that's less than ideal).
Last edited by 340drvr; 27th Oct 2020 at 17:18.
I have an acquaintance looking for a single engine plane to buy. His requirements:
#1: His wife, who is ill with cancer, must be able to get in to the copilot seat. She has limited physical ability so overwing doors eg PA32R aren't suitable (they tried). Sometimes she can, other times it seems not. I've suggested a Lance or A36 Bonanza anyway with the idea that she can use the front seat while feeling well, and still easily get in the back when not so able.
So far he's considered C210 & Piper Malibu. Can anyone think of equivalents? Even homebuilts/experimental. I'm having a hard time thinking of anything else.
#1: His wife, who is ill with cancer, must be able to get in to the copilot seat. She has limited physical ability so overwing doors eg PA32R aren't suitable (they tried). Sometimes she can, other times it seems not. I've suggested a Lance or A36 Bonanza anyway with the idea that she can use the front seat while feeling well, and still easily get in the back when not so able.
So far he's considered C210 & Piper Malibu. Can anyone think of equivalents? Even homebuilts/experimental. I'm having a hard time thinking of anything else.
Thread Starter
It is a bit of a case of wanted two opposite things. The turbo C210 is looking like the best bet. Anyone happen to have cruise TAS for a turbo C182RG. It might just be fast enough? He'll be a brand new PPL so not sure a twin is a good option. At least not yet. And he hasn't mentioned twins anyway. Maybe a C337 would work? A later one, esp. if turbo'd.
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Just picked a copy of Pilot from '79 from out of the pile and coincidentally it has an air test of the then new 182RG (not TC) - 156kt at 75% power and 7500'; range 800nm.
Not that a brand new PPL can't learn to adequately fly a fast airplane on long x-country trips, but, there's lots of makings for a standard disaster recipe in the scenario as described.
That said, insurance on any of the previously discussed suitable aircraft is likely to be prohibitive, and, in the case of a 210, (or Malibu) may not be obtainable at all.
Just sayin'....
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A guy
A guy with a new PPL!!!!
He will not be getting insurance on anything 150kt fast, complex until he has a few hundred hours under his belt and likely an IR.
Thinking sa fixed gear 182 would likely be best - good ish speed, not difficult to fly, ok access (a collapsable step to aid access and good for checking the fuel too) - ok insurance premiums and much, much less likely to kill himself in it.
Also it depends on where he is going - difference on a 400 mile leg between 135kts and 150kts translates to half an hour or so.
He will not be getting insurance on anything 150kt fast, complex until he has a few hundred hours under his belt and likely an IR.
Thinking sa fixed gear 182 would likely be best - good ish speed, not difficult to fly, ok access (a collapsable step to aid access and good for checking the fuel too) - ok insurance premiums and much, much less likely to kill himself in it.
Also it depends on where he is going - difference on a 400 mile leg between 135kts and 150kts translates to half an hour or so.
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I would have thought a brand new PPL would be a bit optimistic operating a Malibu or P210 from a strip with such marginal limits? A new pilot may find insurance will dictate the aircraft?
Just seen the two above posts 👍
Just seen the two above posts 👍
Last edited by pistongone; 6th Nov 2020 at 07:15. Reason: Didn't RTFQ😱 and answers!
What about a Rockwell/Commander 114? To my eye still a thoroughly modern looking plane, wide access double doors, VERY spacious and well appointed cabin (relative to others mentioned), performance is probably not quite at the requested level but not too hot for a low time PPL, with a forgiving trailing link undercarriage. Very underrated aircraft in my opinion.
Turbo 210 will be fine on a sealed 2700ft runway. The big issue is the IFR rating. If you want to go places then IFR is a must. for this category of airplane.
It is not totally outrageous for a new PPL to go straight to a 210. I did the check out and subsequent IFR training for a 100 hr PPL and he was insurable. However we had structured 50 hour dual program to get him there and then a mentoring program after he got his IFR.
The only caveat was this was 6 years ago. The insurance market is much tighter now so before you even start looking at airplanes it is important that you find out if you can get a quote. IMO there is no way anyone will quote a new PPL on a Malibu.
It is not totally outrageous for a new PPL to go straight to a 210. I did the check out and subsequent IFR training for a 100 hr PPL and he was insurable. However we had structured 50 hour dual program to get him there and then a mentoring program after he got his IFR.
The only caveat was this was 6 years ago. The insurance market is much tighter now so before you even start looking at airplanes it is important that you find out if you can get a quote. IMO there is no way anyone will quote a new PPL on a Malibu.
What about a Rockwell/Commander 114? To my eye still a thoroughly modern looking plane, wide access double doors, VERY spacious and well appointed cabin (relative to others mentioned), performance is probably not quite at the requested level but not too hot for a low time PPL, with a forgiving trailing link undercarriage. Very underrated aircraft in my opinion.
