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Don't feel constrained by the runway markings!

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Don't feel constrained by the runway markings!

Old 6th Jul 2020, 06:37
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Don't feel constrained by the runway markings!

I stumbled across this video


I thought there was a useful lesson there - don't feel limited to the 'official runway' on takeoff. This chap very sensibly added the soccer pitch to his takeoff run!

I looked-up that strip. It is 850m long, so adding a 100 feet or so seems very sensible.

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Old 6th Jul 2020, 06:54
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Originally Posted by double_barrel View Post
I stumbled across this video

I thought there was a useful lesson there - don't feel limited to the 'official runway' on takeoff. This chap very sensibly added the soccer pitch to his takeoff run!

I looked-up that strip. It is 850m long, so adding a 100 feet or so seems very sensible.
Until next week when the bloke fails to hold the gate or a tyre failure swings it into the restricted space. Or turns left into the gate thinking it was open. There was no shortage of runway. I wonder if insurance would cover the increased TORA? AOC limitations? 'It seemed like a good idea at the time' is no defence. It may be SOP there but I wouldn't map it across to other operations myself. Just my 2d worth.


To add - worth a lookCamera points North

St Andrew's School is situated in Turi about 40KM from Nakuru Town & 5Km before Molo Town, Elevation approx. 8200ft.Camera points North / East across Runway 05, towards the Subukia Escarpment which is at approx. 7,000ft above MSL.
Local Time at webcam: 09:58
Image updated every 5 minutes

http://kenyawebcam.com/cam.pl?cam=turiwebcam

http://www.kenyawebcam.com/cam.pl?cam=naivashacam2
Well worth a virtual holiday to Kenya in travel free times

Thanks for posting. Once again PPRuNe gets me out and about.

Last edited by Islandlad; 6th Jul 2020 at 08:07.
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Old 6th Jul 2020, 07:08
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Originally Posted by Islandlad View Post
Until next week when the bloke fails to hold the gate or a tyre failure swings it into the restricted space. Or turns left into the gate thinking it was open. There was no shortage of runway. I wonder if insurance would cover the increased TORA? AOC limitations? 'It seemed like a good idea at the time's is no defence. It may be SOP there but I wouldn't map it across to other operations myself. Just my 2d worth.
OK, I'm aways interested to hear contrary opinions! It looks to me as if they were not at full power until they crossed that little 'dip' before the threshold. It seems sensible to me to get it rolling and gain some runway, the soccer pitch seems wider and flatter than the runway, so on a case-by-case basis, it seems sensible. I had not thought of insurance implications..


Worth adding, it's at 8,236 MSL and it looks like a hot day.
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Old 6th Jul 2020, 07:13
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Originally Posted by Islandlad View Post
Well worth a virtual holiday to Kenya in travel free times

Thanks for posting. Once again PPRuNe gets me out and about.


There is an interesting 'what would you do' on the same strip n the next video!


I think I would have rejected that take-off - there was enough runway to stop.
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Old 6th Jul 2020, 08:05
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Originally Posted by double_barrel View Post
There is an interesting 'what would you do' on the same strip n the next video!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gsO...Wf8QnK&index=2

I think I would have rejected that take-off - there was enough runway to stop.
Bird strike? I wouldn't reject unless engine parameters are affected. My cents.
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Old 6th Jul 2020, 08:06
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Looking at all the videos now. Very interesting and beautiful.

These pilots fly there every day. Nothing to add. I'm going to step back and say no more.
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Old 6th Jul 2020, 08:08
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Originally Posted by Mgggpilot View Post
Bird strike? I wouldn't reject unless engine parameters are affected. My cents.
I mean with two bloody big crowned (not crested!) cranes flapping around in front of me I would have abandoned the takeoff before reaching them. Obviously no point in rejecting after you have passed them.

Last edited by double_barrel; 6th Jul 2020 at 08:25.
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Old 6th Jul 2020, 10:55
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Originally Posted by Islandlad View Post
Looking at all the videos now. Very interesting and beautiful.

These pilots fly there every day. Nothing to add. I'm going to step back and say no more.
I would say, totally normal, both videos.

Looks like it was a hot season and I bet the cranes were sitting exactly where it was totally ok on cold days.
We have a hawk at my home base sitting right on the runway and he knows exactly where we take off ... maybe likes to sit in the prop wash.
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Old 6th Jul 2020, 10:57
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Originally Posted by double_barrel View Post
OK, I'm aways interested to hear contrary opinions! It looks to me as if they were not at full power until they crossed that little 'dip' before the threshold. It seems sensible to me to get it rolling and gain some runway, the soccer pitch seems wider and flatter than the runway, so on a case-by-case basis, it seems sensible. I had not thought of insurance implications..


Worth adding, it's at 8,236 MSL and it looks like a hot day.
Seems sensible to me too though it does look like a little bit of the football pitch was left behind!
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Old 6th Jul 2020, 14:50
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One of the most useless things is the runway behind you.
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Old 6th Jul 2020, 15:52
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Originally Posted by double_barrel View Post
There is an interesting 'what would you do' on the same strip n the next video!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gsO...Wf8QnK&index=2

I think I would have rejected that take-off - there was enough runway to stop.
Due to the foreshortening effect of the long lens of the video camera, the Cessna-crane encounter may not have been as close as it appeared in the video.

Cheers,
Grog
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Old 6th Jul 2020, 19:21
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If you choose to use a surface which is not considered "runway", best to walk it first. If it could be a runway, and is not, there's probably a reason. Walking it is a good start to detecting characteristics which could get in trouble. Soft ground would be the first thing I'd be looking for.

At the small grass runway where I used to keep my 150, I was the "caretaker", in return for free tiedowns. I took the care. One spring, an end of the 1600 foot runway was too soft for airplanes. So, determining that the rest was suitable, I got a bag of sports field marking chalk, and neatly placed displaced threshold chevrons on the soft part. From my new threshold, it was perfectly fine, albeit short. Well, the boss came home later that day, flying one of his several planes (14 at the high point of his ownership), today, it was the Piper Tomahawk - with its 5.00-5 mainwheels. He didn't take my displaced threshold markings seriously, and landed in that area. He stopped in only a couple of hundred feet, up to the tops of the tiny tires in mud. There was so much mud splattered everywhere, that it was muddy on top of the T tail! 'Lucky thing he didn't flip it. I helped him pull it out, but left him to wash it. After that, he appreciated my caretaking efforts.

His friend had me fly him up to his cottage after he lost his medical. Cessna floatplane 180 . After a check out in the tiny lake, I could drop him off, and have the plane for the weekend. He checked me out, taxiing around, pointing out every rock. He knew each one, as he had hit each one at some point. (He also showed me where he crashed and sank his previous C 185). Well, the first few weekend trips went well. Then with some tricky winds between the trees, and a too loose turn, I hit a rock, "thump, scrape, thump, scrape and so forth, the full length of the float. I was imagining a Titanic type situation, with a gash through many compartments. So, it was sink, or fly, right then. Sinking there wound be bad, not a road within 20 miles, so a very expensive helicopter hoist. I poured on the power, hoping to get up on the step before I took on too much water. Any I took on, would drain in flight, and I could beach it easily at home base. I got airborne, Whew! When I landed back at base, I beached it, and went for the dolly to pull it out, and see how much metal I'd have to patch that weekend. Well... I could not tell which of the many scratches was mine! So, relived, I gave it another good look, pumped the floats again, and wend flying for the rest of the day!

When I was asked to demonstrate the C182 amphibian into a very short runway in central Norway, I was skeptical. The runway was commonly used by powered hang gliders, and is only 900 feet long. This was 40 feet longer than the landing ground roll performance value for the conditions. Knowing that I would use all of the runway, I drove over first, and walked all of the runway. In particular, what was at the far end, and past the fence, in case I did not get stopped. It was fine, no surprises.

I flew my flying boat into a small lake at a fishing camp in the very far north of Quebec. The camp operator had buoy marked the lake for floatplane use. I landed in the buoyed area, but had trouble turning around in the wind, so went outside the buoys a little. After a very nice welcome by the camp staff, the boss, who was equally welcoming, gently, sternly said to me: "stay inside the buoys, they're there for a reason.". He knows the lake much better than I do, and that would be a very inconvenient place to punch a hole in the hull.

So if you're going to operate outside the lines, walk them first!
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Old 7th Jul 2020, 12:10
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Or maybe swim them.
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