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Can I hire a pilot

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Can I hire a pilot

Old 1st May 2020, 17:43
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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Can I hire a pilot

I am thinking of buying a piper mirage to get around northern Europe. I would like to hire a pilot to fly it. Is that legal. I would like to let my family members or friends to use it to come and stay with me. I have a villa in Majorca and it would be great if I can let them come on the plane to stay with me. I am reading on the CAA site but it says I have to get the pilot to share the costs which wouldnt work. Is there another way to do this legally.

Thanks in anticipation of your answers.
stuartforrest is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 17:59
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If they have a Commercial Licence (and for this purpose, an Instrument Rating - if it's a turbine mirage also a type rating, not required for a piston engined aircraft), issued from the state of registration of the aeroplane, and you let everybody you give a lift to (family / friends / etc.) have those flights for free - you don't charge them: yes, not a problem.

Charge them, use a pilot with only a PPL, no - that's a problem.

To avoid a bunch of trouble, if you're British, it's best to buy a G (British) registered aeroplane, and hire somebody with British licences. You'll want them to have a CPL/IR. There are workarounds for different states of licence and registry, etc. but frankly, you shouldn't need to deal with them, so why bother. That said, many people do this with an N-reg (American) aeroplane and there are plenty of FAA licenced pilots around: but you need to own it through a US based trust. Lots of advice on the interweb about that (and no type rating needed if it's FAA, due different rules.)

G
Genghis the Engineer is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 23:49
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Much, much cheaper and much safer and more reliable and comfortable to go by Easyjet, Ryanair, Jet2 etc (once they start up again!).

Why not use a fraction of the money to learn to fly yourself and get a real sense of achievement? Buy a share in something a lot more basic and get some experience with other pilots of flying in the UK. Who knows where you might get to after that- I write as one who has flown a light aircraft all over the UK from Scotland as well as to Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerland and to Eire, France & Germany several times.

Nevertheless, I only fly for fun in at least reasonable weather. I would not dream of flying myself or family or friends anywhere if we have to get there. I leave that to the airlines. So if you are determined to pursue your plan, why not try chartering a small aircraft with a professional pilot for a few long flights before taking the sound advice of Genghis the Engineer. Good luck!



Forfoxake is offline  
Old 2nd May 2020, 09:06
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Originally Posted by Forfoxake View Post
Much, much cheaper and much safer and more reliable and comfortable to go by Easyjet, Ryanair, Jet2 etc (once they start up again!).

Why not use a fraction of the money to learn to fly yourself and get a real sense of achievement?
You are wrongly assuming the OP is not a pilot.
oggers is offline  
Old 2nd May 2020, 09:14
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That sounds great.

Yes forfoxake you are assuming incorrectly that I am not a pilot. I have been a PPL since 1995 and have about 500 hours, an IMC and Night Rating (all lapsed currently but intend to renew). I had a Bonanza for 15 years and a 182 before that. I am just looking for a different option these days. I learned long ago that Easyjet is cheaper but its not always convenient for where I go and when I go. I am going for a Meridian now.

Many thanks for the replies, I appreciate them.
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Old 2nd May 2020, 16:25
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Perhaps there is a younger relative that would jump at the chance to learn to fly and get an instrument rating.

​​​​​​For something like a Mirage, it may be worthwhile to explore the various options of state of registry and which bureaucracy is least painful to deal with.
RatherBeFlying is offline  
Old 2nd May 2020, 17:10
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I'll fly it for you, 1500hrs ish and 1100hrs on the mighty DASH for Flybe around Europe.
Current DASH 8 type rating with IR/PBN. My Single Pilot IR has lapsed but thats not a problem to sort
Danskora is offline  
Old 2nd May 2020, 17:23
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Bearing in mind this is a professional pilots’ forum, it’s rather strange to read that the only advice some can give is not to hire professional pilots.
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Old 2nd May 2020, 17:25
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I find that a bit less strange upon considering we are in the "private flying" section.
Jan Olieslagers is offline  
Old 2nd May 2020, 18:34
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Originally Posted by stuartforrest View Post
That sounds great.

Yes forfoxake you are assuming incorrectly that I am not a pilot. I have been a PPL since 1995 and have about 500 hours, an IMC and Night Rating (all lapsed currently but intend to renew). I had a Bonanza for 15 years and a 182 before that. I am just looking for a different option these days. I learned long ago that Easyjet is cheaper but its not always convenient for where I go and when I go. I am going for a Meridian now.

Many thanks for the replies, I appreciate them.
Sincere apologies and well done!. It is most commendable that despite your flying experience, you are looking for a more experienced pilot to fly your planned trans-continental flights.
Hope you find what you are looking for.
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Old 2nd May 2020, 19:18
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Originally Posted by Jan Olieslagers View Post
I find that a bit less strange upon considering we are in the "private flying" section.
But the OP was asking about hiring a pilot.
ShyTorque is offline  
Old 3rd May 2020, 06:38
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I don't know the rules in Europe, but where I am, a company or an individual can hire someone (a pilot) to work for them much in the same way someone would hire/employ a chauffeur.

The pilot needs to hold at least a PPL and to be appropriately qualified on the aircraft and for the type of flying (e.g. IR for IFR flight). So long as the aircraft is not used for hire or reward, in other words the people travelling on the aircraft do not pay for their travel whether with money or in kind, there is nothing requiring an AOC or similar. It's a private operation.

The aircraft insurer may have minimum requirements, e.g. CPL etc
27/09 is offline  
Old 3rd May 2020, 13:47
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There is some truth in what 27/09 is claiming but it is not so straight forward. If a pilot is employed as a pilot then they are receiving payment for flying. A PPL cannot be paid as a pilot. When though, a pilot is substantially employed in an unrelated role and simply flying occasionally in the course of their duties then they may be a private pilot. To establish this can be very complicated and costly should things go wrong.

There is no shortage of experienced CPL/IR holders who would love the opportunity, many of whom are also poorly paid flight instructors. Hire such an individual then any concerns that all is above board are mitigated and you can sleep well. The more the arrangement is kept simple and straightforward the better. If I was having my pilot and aeroplane collect friends and family I would need to be certain they are safe and properly insured and all without any ambiguity.
Fl1ingfrog is offline  
Old 6th May 2020, 07:37
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You can do exactly as you are asking. I used to fly a PA46 doing that exact route for a private owner for years as a paid commercial pilot. The 46 is a very capable high altitude cruiser. We had a close on 99% launch rate. I also managed all the maintenance etc for him.

If you need an experienced PA46 Pilot drop me a PM. Instructor and Examiner on type as well.
S-Works is offline  
Old 6th May 2020, 14:31
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But the OP was asking about hiring a pilot.
I reckon that's a matter of semantics. I have at one time "hired" my nieces to come and "do" my garden - paying them handsomely so they could properly fit themselves out for the upcoming weekend. This did not make them professionals, or tax-liable; neither did it make me an employer.
Jan Olieslagers is offline  
Old 6th May 2020, 15:26
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Originally Posted by Jan Olieslagers View Post
I reckon that's a matter of semantics. I have at one time "hired" my nieces to come and "do" my garden - paying them handsomely so they could properly fit themselves out for the upcoming weekend. This did not make them professionals, or tax-liable; neither did it make me an employer.
I don't know about Belgian law, but under English law, if they'd had an accident whilst using your lawnmower, I think that you might have discovered quite quickly that you were indeed their employer, with a whole bunch of consequent legal responsibilities.

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Genghis the Engineer is offline  
Old 6th May 2020, 17:20
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Well, for this once Belgian law shows better common sense then. Here, they'd be considered as rendering a service under family relations, besides their pay being unregistered. Accidents would be covered by my "family" insurance or by their parents'.
Jan Olieslagers is offline  
Old 6th May 2020, 19:37
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Originally Posted by Jan Olieslagers View Post
I reckon that's a matter of semantics. I have at one time "hired" my nieces to come and "do" my garden - paying them handsomely so they could properly fit themselves out for the upcoming weekend. This did not make them professionals, or tax-liable; neither did it make me an employer.
Semantics it may be in your opinion , but flying a privately owned aircraft on behalf of the owner is how myself and quite a few other pilots in UK earn their living. It cannot legally be done here without a commercial licence.
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Old 6th May 2020, 23:30
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27/09, that's the case in Oz & NZ, but most places in the world the rules are different: To be paid as a pilot you must have at least a CPL.
Tinstaafl is offline  
Old 7th May 2020, 06:53
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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What’s the best place to post

What’s the best place to post a job for a small plane. You are not allowed to post it on here. Any advice would be appreciated
stuartforrest is offline  

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