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New Farnborough CAS

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New Farnborough CAS

Old 6th Mar 2020, 14:12
  #21 (permalink)  

Avoid imitations
 
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Originally Posted by Talkdownman View Post
None currently published. IFR flights are limited to visual approaches (where a visual approach is [for those who might not know] an approach by an IFR flight executed with visual reference to terrain)
In practical terms though, flown under IFR or not, at a place like Lasham there can be no formal ATC separation from other traffic because it's not in CAS (although in a MATZ) and there is no published IFR approach. So any approach could only be flown on a "see and be seen" basis, i.e. same as under VFR.

Or are there specific local procedures in place at Lasham? Although I was based literally "next door" for three tours I never saw any.
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 14:59
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShyTorque View Post
any approach could only be flown on a "see and be seen" basis, i.e. same as under VFR.

Or are there specific local procedures in place at Lasham?
Well, an IFR Visual Approach is not a VFR approach, the difference being that a 'visual approach' under IFR is not 'see and be seen', therefore not the same as when under VFR. A Visual Approach under IFR does not require VFR minima, and is flown solely with visual reference to terrain for navigation purposes only, whether out of choice or in the absence of an IAP. Traffic detection and avoidance on an IFR Visual Approach is a different matter. In other words its purpose is to locate a landing area visually, and not necessarily other traffic.

There are no specific procedures at Lasham. IFR Visual approaches are executed in the same manner as when approaching any other aerodromes without IAPs outside CAS under IFR.
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 19:09
  #23 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Talkdownman View Post
Well, an IFR Visual Approach is not a VFR approach, the difference being that a 'visual approach' under IFR is not 'see and be seen', therefore not the same as when under VFR. A Visual Approach under IFR does not require VFR minima, and is flown solely with visual reference to terrain for navigation purposes only, whether out of choice or in the absence of an IAP. Traffic detection and avoidance on an IFR Visual Approach is a different matter. In other words its purpose is to locate a landing area visually, and not necessarily other traffic.

There are no specific procedures at Lasham. IFR Visual approaches are executed in the same manner as when approaching any other aerodromes without IAPs outside CAS under IFR.
I’m often required to fly IFR in Class G and land without the benefit of IAPs. The relevant point is, the pilot is still responsible for complying with rules of the air, specifically wrt the right of way rules. I’m genuinely intrigued how an airliner flying under IFR can safely slot into a potentially very busy glider airfield such as Lasham.
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 21:45
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShyTorque View Post
Iím genuinely intrigued how an airliner flying under IFR can safely slot into a potentially very busy glider airfield such as Lasham.
As 'Buster the Bear' and 'planesandthings' will corroborate, it's a finely-tuned 'Black Art' administered by some aged mystics. It's a sort of 'Reverse Moses and the Red Sea'. How long have you got.... ;-)

Then bung in a primary radar (when it's working...) which is almost as old as the A/G operators themselves, and one has a very challenging situation for SARG ATS to regulate. But the system works, and the MRO and the gliding club co-exist harmoniously...most of the time...

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Old 6th Mar 2020, 22:30
  #25 (permalink)  

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If only I understood what the last two abbreviations mean......
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Old 7th Mar 2020, 06:41
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShyTorque View Post
If only I understood what the last two abbreviations mean......
Safety & Airspace Regulation Group - Air Traffic Service. Maintenance and Repair Organisation.
Please excuse me, but I haven't made them up, they are UK aviation industry abbreviations.


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Old 7th Mar 2020, 07:49
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Excuse me, but I do not excuse you Even if you did not invent all that gibberish, still nobody forced you to use them; neither did anyone forbid you to explain them, perhaps in a footnote. And you might be aware that not all readership here is or flies in the UK.
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Old 7th Mar 2020, 07:56
  #28 (permalink)  

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TDM, Thank you. I didn't accuse you of making them up but I hadn't come across them before.
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Old 7th Mar 2020, 08:13
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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There's an excellent resource on the Blackbushe website which is particularly relevant to their visitors but also gives an insight in to how the airspace is coordinated. Well worth a read before venturing to that part of the World.

2 weeks ago. I flew from the South-west to Biggin Hill, routing South of Lasham, via the Alton and Frensham VRPs, getting a service from Farnborough West. I see that my route and chosen level would still be valid today, so not much change for East-West routing. I can see that some N/S and variant routes could be a bit problematic. The Blackbushe site says Farnborough have 6-7 movements an hour, so there should be no delay in getting a crossing of the Class D. The major issue, from what I can see, is gliding from Lasham and people wanting to bimble about without an A-B plan.

TOO
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Old 7th Mar 2020, 14:09
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShyTorque View Post
I’m often required to fly IFR in Class G and land without the benefit of IAPs. The relevant point is, the pilot is still responsible for complying with rules of the air, specifically wrt the right of way rules. I’m genuinely intrigued how an airliner flying under IFR can safely slot into a potentially very busy glider airfield such as Lasham.
Decades of co-existance and training from day one for anyone operating at Lasham on integration between IFR Jets and Gliding Operations. Glider pilots never expect or are taught to exercise rights of way on commercial airliners as it's pretty useless to use it as a defence if it goes horribly wrong! I'm well aware the Lasham team on both the airliner and glider side have years of experience and coordination that keeps the operation safe and to there credit it works superbly. Innsbruck is very similar. Have a look at the Lasham Gliding website if you are interested in some of the procedures.
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Old 7th Mar 2020, 14:13
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TheOddOne View Post
6-7 movements an hour, so there should be no delay in getting a crossing of the Class D. The major issue, from what I can see, is gliding from Lasham and people wanting to bimble about without an A-B plan.

TOO
This is a Farnborough flow restriction currently during implementation phase of the airspace. Farnborough will get busier. Gliding from Lasham remains safe and a lot of work has gone into ensure that. However it is everyone's responsibility regardless of ATZ or not to avoid the overhead of airfields especially below 2000ft. Lasham launches cables up to a max alt of 3600ft AMSL every single day sometimes over 100-150 times. How that doesn't qualify for a danger area who knows. But it certainly isn't the place to be on a Sunny Saturday!
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Old 7th Mar 2020, 17:49
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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I agree on a good gliding day, particularly during a competition period it is not uncommon to launch 150 gliders in the space of 90 minutes behind 9 or 10 tugs. and a lot of the gliders will sit in the overhead thermaling away.
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