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CAA FCL - How on earth do you deal with them ?

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CAA FCL - How on earth do you deal with them ?

Old 6th Jan 2020, 14:19
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CAA FCL - How on earth do you deal with them ?

I recently sent off paperwork to FCL for a new instructor rating. I made one mistake on a form and received an e-mail telling me my application was incomplete and held 'pending'. OK, my mistake, so I duly sent correctly filled in form by e-mail attachment as requested. Now, I have no way of teliing whether that has been received by the duty assessor or not as you cannot get direct e-mail nor talk to him/her directly. If you ring the customer service number your call is triaged and they have no access to your details, apparently.

Furthermore I am told that certified copies of log book entries are not acceptable despite clear advice on their own website to the contrary and the fact that they are encouraging e-licensing which presumably involves electronic submission of such paperwork. I am told that they want to see an original log-book but no indication which one they want to see after forty years plus flying. Apparently I could make a counter appointment at LGW which will cost me a hundred pounds plus not to mention a round trip of two hundred miles plus.

In all my years of airline flying I never had a problem but now that I am back in GA, everything seems to be more than a little difficult.

In summary therefore I have no idea whether my application is still ongoing or is still stalled which is more than a little frustrating as the end date of my temporary certificate gets ever closer.

Any inspired thoughts appreciated !!!
beamer is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2020, 15:39
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Join Date: Mar 2016
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Sadly CAA-FCL seems to be a broken machine, not fit for purpose.

I had 'issues' with them when I added FI to my existing CRI/aerobatic instructor privileges. They refused to apply the aerobatic instructor bit to my new FI certificate.

I wrote to the Chief Executive of the CAA to ask for his help. One of his staff contacted me immediately and then a new licence appeared on my door mat a week later to replace the one week old 'new/incorrect' one.

Seems they could do it after all!!!

Last edited by Kemble Pitts; 15th Jan 2020 at 15:33. Reason: spelling
Kemble Pitts is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2020, 16:21
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Join Date: Sep 2003
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I did a SOLI to Austria as work mandated it. Best thing I have ever done. A delight to deal with, named contacts and direct dial telephone numbers. A single person deals with every application by email. Scanned copies of documents.

And of course Brexit proof.
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Old 6th Jan 2020, 17:23
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Beamer.
Spend a tenth of your BALPA subs on a years subscription to AOPA UK. They have contacts at the top of FCL and can 'sort out' problems when they get to your level. I spent five months looking longingly at razor blades and rooftops before I finally got the licence I needed. As you say, when we flew jets it all seemed a lot easier.

Good Luck.
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Old 6th Jan 2020, 18:42
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Part of the problem is brexit, FCL are dealing with hundreds if not thousands of licence transfers to other EU states....... including mine !
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Old 6th Jan 2020, 18:45
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Okay, GtH kindly explained that "CB" was not circuit breaker last week....

FCL? Fuel Control Lever?

Would posters courteously write out acronyms early in the first post so everyone reading understands what the topic is?
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Old 6th Jan 2020, 19:02
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Other than the looming "B" word license transfers part of the issue appears to be that a new crop of employees at the CAA have been selected purely on an academic basis focusing on recent graduates with little or no aviation experience. The young "graduate" I spoke to last year wasn't sure what a CPL(H) was.
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Old 6th Jan 2020, 19:22
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FCL? Fuel Control Lever?

Would posters courteously write out acronyms early in the first post so everyone reading understands what the topic is?
FCL - Flight Crew Licensing
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Old 6th Jan 2020, 19:43
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Beamer.. I am sorry to hear of your problems, but the UK CAA FCL many years ago were very user friendly, and not only could you get through on the phone, but you could also get through to a couple of people who knew what they were taking about in relation to AFI and FI ratings, also FIE usually knew the right people to talk to

I am open to be corrected, but you are only legally required to keep a log book record for two years, so in some cases I am not sure how you prove your flying experience, such as losing your logbook. It used to be the case that you could provide a affidavit, now known in English law, as a statement of truth. This can be done before a solicitor, but if you want to do this for free, it is just as easy to drop into the County Court and get a statement of truth witnessed for free before a court clerk. It would be interesting to know if the CAA will accept a statement of truth.

One final point is, you might ask the moderator to transfer this thread to the instructors forum as there are a couple of guys on their who really know their stuff.
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Old 6th Jan 2020, 21:29
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Beamer, I am in a similar situation. How long ago did you submit the application?

cheers
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Old 6th Jan 2020, 22:01
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FCL - Flight Crew Licensing
Ah, okay.. In this part of the world, we call it Personnel Licensing, though I see either is valid, as long as we all understand....

After the pre takeoff briefing: "Is everything understood? Are there any questions?"

Acronyms are okay, if we're sure that everyone understands them. I use them a lot in my aviation reports, though I assure that either there is an acronym list, or, I write it out full early and obviously....
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Old 7th Jan 2020, 07:44
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anchorhold

Affidavits are no longer accepted for lost log books because at least one person was found to be "bending" the hours at some time in the past. It now involves two costly interviews at the Belgrano..............
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Old 7th Jan 2020, 09:51
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Originally Posted by MrAverage View Post
anchorhold

Affidavits are no longer accepted for lost log books because at least one person was found to be "bending" the hours at some time in the past. It now involves two costly interviews at the Belgrano..............

Quite right too. Remember the Basel Vanguard?
108 killed ....Captain swore an affidavit then failed the IR 8 times.
Very, very few of his claimed hours could later be substantiated.
Previously suspended from the RCAF ....
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Old 7th Jan 2020, 16:32
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It is difficult to know if two interviews at the Belgrano will make any difference over a sworn statement, what are they going to do, torture the pilot into the truth?
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 08:54
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Update - still no apparent progress. Unable to talk to licensing officer, unable to talk to supervisor, temporary certificate about to run out therefore unable to earn income if no resolution ! I feel that a formal complaint or letter to CEO is about due. This is not about speed of process per se, its about communication regarding 'issues' and lack of clarity in email communication.
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 14:54
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You should contact [email protected]
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Old 17th Jan 2020, 07:16
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I had an issue where when I unfroze my ATPL they omitted my SEP rating on the licence. Took about 5 months to get the correct licence issued. They wouldn’t reply to any emails. The only way to get a swift response was to log an official complaint on their website. Then it got sorted within a week.

Bad service now. Used to be fine with same day appointments where you could actually sit down with somebody...and enjoy a breakfast upstairs!
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Old 17th Jan 2020, 10:39
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Originally Posted by Lew747 View Post
Took about 5 months to get the correct licence issued.
It took me nine months to get an IMC/IR(R) added to my license. Biggest holdup was that the CAA would not accept I had an LPE-6, even though they had issued me a JAR-FCL PPL that said LPE-6 earlier that year. And this was well before Brexit, so well before they got inundated with SOLI requests.

I'm about to start the process to add a full IR and NQ to my license, and also transfer my Dutch national sailplane license to the CAA (EASA GPL). I'm not looking forward to that - it'll probably again be months of waiting and explaining the CAA their own rules. My very first information request about what they needed from me to transfer that sailplane license took two months to be responded to - and then I got an answer that clearly indicated they hadn't even read my question properly.
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Old 17th Jan 2020, 14:35
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Licence finally arrived yesterday after endless telephone calls and e-mails. A one to one telephone conversation with the licensing officer would have sorted out the matter in minutes !
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Old 17th Jan 2020, 15:11
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If the proposed e-licencing is anything like the on-line application methods used in the maintenance world at the CAA, then it will be a disaster.

I used CAA on-line forms. The forms failed to tell you what was required before you started. At the end, after an age of entering data, you would find you had to submit a document that you did not have ready.

The only advantage of filling in the online form was that it saved a clerk at CAA entering the data. It still took weeks for them to assess the form, at which point they would find a mistake and put it on hold.

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