LAPL, how light aircraft can you fly?

[Andrew_Hurley]

Hi all experts,

I'm about to sign up for pilot training and am quite clear about the differences between LAPL and PPL.
LAPL seems most suitable as it has lower requirements and that it can easily be upgraded to PPL whenever I feel the need to fly world wide or add some specific ratings.

My main interest is to fly TMG, Sailplanes and light aircrafts around 600kg take off weight.
I prefer to have the LAPL instead of any ultra light license. Once in a while it is nice to be able to also fly a 4 seater 2000kg for transportation purposes.

Which types/how light aircrafts can still be used to clock LAPL hours to keep my currency requirement?

Thanks
Andy

[MrAverage]

Bear in mind, unless you're especially gifted, you won't complete the training in minimum hours. The accepted average for a PPL is 55 - 60 for example. LAPL should be less than that but no warranty is given or implied.....

[BEagle]

Microlight aeroplanes may be flown by LAPL holders, provided that the licence holder has received differences training from an instructor qualified to provide flight instruction on microlights.

Currently, flight time on microlight aeroplanes may not be credited towards LAPL recency requirements; however, this is expected to change shortly.

[Andrew_Hurley]

Thanks for your replies.

Is there a set weight limit, e.g. 600 to 2000 kg can be counted towards LAPL currency requirement or how do I know whether I am flying the appropriate aircraft type?
And, do you have any link to more information about the possible change to also allow microlight hours (I'm assuming you weight-shifted trikes)?

[BillieBob]

LAPL seems most suitable as it has lower requirements

It is true that the LAPL has lower minimum hours requirements than the PPL but the standard required at the skill test and the theoretical knowledge examinations are identical. It is reasonable to suppose that it will take an individual the same number of hours to reach the same standard whichever licence one is training for. At most, one might save a handful of hours on the LAPL course by not having to learn basic instrument flying, but not enough to justify choosing an inferior licence. The only reason to choose an LAPL in preference to a PPL is if one cannot or does not wish to hold a Class 2 medical certificate.

[Jan Olieslagers]

Wouldn't the cost per hour be lower for LAPL training than for PPL? For the plane, and perhaps even for the instructor?

[TheOddOne]

We charge the same hourly rate for dual training for both the LAPL and the PPL, in the same aircraft with the same instructor. I don't know of any instructors who are restricted to just the LAPL (though in theory that is possible) and I'm not sure what hourly rate we'd pay them. We've just upped the amount we pay instructors from £25 per hour to £30, the first increase in nearly 10 years. Locally, I know of one Club now paying £40 per hour. As far as I know, the requirements for the aircraft are identical for both licences. In any case, we've only got one aircraft so it's academic!

We do offer the LAPL in accordance with our DTO, using a commercially available syllabus, for those who want it. We started 2 LPALs last year, both of whom converted to PPL when the hours they'd attained exceeded the PPL requirement. As BillieBob says, the LAPL really only has a place for those who fall short of the Class 2, but can still get a LAPL medical.

TOO

[Andrew_Hurley]

With "lower requirements" I meant the currency requirements, basically that you don't need a PC every 12 month and can distribute your hours over the last 24 months as you wish.

My main question still remains though, how can I determine whether an aircraft is eligible to count as LAPL hours towards the currency requirement?

[RTN11]

FCL 140 refers. The hours can be in either TMG or SEP to retain currency.

Do note the restrictions on the LAPL though. To make up for the lower hours to gain the licence, you are unable to carry passengers until you have flown 10 hours PIC post licence issue.

Also, post licence issue, you are restricted to the class and variant of aircraft you took the skills test in, until you have completed 3 hours instruction for a new variant, or a skills test for a new class.

The PPL(A) is less restricted in this way, needing simple differences training, and no restrictions on carrying passengers.

As above, not many people go through the LAPL in minimum hours. Most schools charge the same hourly rate for PPL and LAPL - if they are not it means their LAPL instructors are far less qualified than their PPL instructing counterparts.

If it were me, I'd just do the PPL(A) in the first place, as it is the foundation for every EASA licence and will be much more versatile in the future. I would only get an LAPL if that was the only licence I could get for medical reasons.

[Andrew_Hurley]

Thanks all.
I might actually do as you suggest, take the PPL instead and possibly downgrade if I feel there is a period when I don't fly as much.

This leaves me at three questions
1. What is the reactivation procedure from an LAPL to PPL, if you have earlier held a PPL?
2. The SEP and TMG category as you mention, does that mean that there is no lower weight limit, e.g. can it be a 2-seater 260 kg Ikarus C42 and still counted as LAPL hours?
3. Does the LAPL and PPL have the same aircraft type requirements to keep the currency requirements?

The reason for asking is that I am mainly interested to fly lighter aircraft, and don't want to have to fly a PA28 12 hours every year just for the sake of it. I want my lighter aircraft hours to also count.

Sorry if these are stupid questions. I might be waaay confused here

[patowalker]

Originally Posted by Andrew_Hurley

With "lower requirements" I meant the currency requirements, basically that you don't need a PC every 12 month and can distribute your hours over the last 24 months as you wish.

You cannot distribute the hours as you wish. The LAPL has a rolling validity and you must be current on each and every flight. That means having at least 12 hours flight time as PIC, including 12 take-offs and landings and refresher training of at least 1 hour of total flight time with an instructor in the last 24 months.

[BEagle]

RTN11 , your information is incorrect.

The '3 hr' clause you quote (plus other requirements) refers ONLY to FCL.135.A(a), where privileges for a different aeroplane CLASS are sought (e.g. adding TMG privileges to a LAPL(A) with SEP privileges). Whereas FCL.135.A(b) refers to variant or differences training WITHIN a Class and are the same as for any other licence which includes an SEP or TMG Class Rating.

[kestrel539]

My main interest is to fly TMG, Sailplanes and light aircrafts around 600kg take off weight

Learn to fly a glider, get your LAPL (S), and add the TMG extension to that.
By the time you have done that, the rules for aircraft around 600kg are bound to have changed.

[Lacasta]

Good morning, I am a pilot who lives in Spain and has a microlight license. The fact is that now I want to get the LAPL (A) license and no matter how much I look for I don't know if with the hours made in micro light I can count them for the renewal every 24 months of the LAPL license. They told me that according to a law of 2019 in October it was possible but I could not find it. Thank you very much for the help.

[chevvron]

Originally Posted by MrAverage

Bear in mind, unless you're especially gifted, you won't complete the training in minimum hours. The accepted average for a PPL is 55 - 60 for example. LAPL should be less than that but no warranty is given or implied.....

Much easier in the 'old' days and I wasn't especially 'gifted'.
In 1971, I completed my PPL(A) training for an 'approved course' syllabus in six weeks (weekdays only but a lot of days lost to weather as it was Oct/Nov)/31 hours total time but had to do 4 hours 'revision' before taking my test as the course was supposed to be 35 hours.
Mind you this was in the days before the CAA was invented and I had 40+ hours gliding (over 500 launches) under my belt, but this latter counted for nothing as I didn't have a Silver C Badge.

[Jan Olieslagers]

@Lacasta: welcome here! I am not an authority on the subtle matter of licensing, but I feel inclined to think that the ultralight license (why the Brits want to talk of a "microlight" is an eternal mistery to me ) being a national document, only the authority who issued it can honour the hours you fly on it. That is to say, the UK CAA (or my own Belgian counterpart, or whoever) can never take into account the hours that you fly on a Spanish ultralight licence.

[mmbengt]

Originally Posted by Lacasta

Good morning, I am a pilot who lives in Spain and has a microlight license. The fact is that now I want to get the LAPL (A) license and no matter how much I look for I don't know if with the hours made in micro light I can count them for the renewal every 24 months of the LAPL license. They told me that according to a law of 2019 in October it was possible but I could not find it. Thank you very much for the help.

— New AMC1 FCL.140.A; FCL.140.S; FCL.740.A(b)(1)(ii) is inserted:
— to include the use of ultralight aircraft to revalidate or maintain the privilegesfor LAPL(A), LAPL for sailplanes (LAPL(S)), and single-pilot single-engine aeroplane class ratings;