First Aircraft Purchase

[Sam Rutherford]

Our Saratoga (FG, non-turbo) will (just) take six adults without luggage 400nm plus reserve, at 150kts.

Or, four adults and luggage a really, really long way!

And it still flies like a PA28, so no big 'step up' to talk of.

[Big Pistons Forever]

The OP needs a plan and most importantly the right instructor. One of my new PPL's went straight to a C210 including all training for night and IFR ratings on the 210. However right from the start we had a plan for his first 150 hrs with a logical progression of dual, solo skill building and post IFR rating mentored flights. The IFR was all done in the airplane and while there was some "pass the flight test bumpf (eg, NDB holds )" stuff most of it was set up as real world A to B flights to different airports and with weather conditions of varying complexity including a real world near minimums ILS and an exactly at minimums LNAV approach.

[frazmac]

Originally Posted by airpolice

Frazmac, you really should listen to what Andrew Devlin can tell you about this.

He's a nice guy, with some nice aircraft, oodles of money and time to indulge himself in it.

For what you plan to do, he's the guy who knows about it.

Do you happen to have contact details for Andrew?

[Aware]

Having been flying since 1983 been instructor examiner and a businessman in an unrelated industry, what you propose unfortunately will not work too well. As others have said let the professionals fly you and the family if you want to be almost 100% sure of getting there. Flying on business in UK in light ac is possible but so many factors makes it very unreliable, as a hobby fine with the odd trip holidays etc. IR necessary as is lots of experience. Used to operate a PA32 T - tail Lance beautiful ac, Be careful and enjoy its fun but quite demanding in many ways. My Wife always liked a safety pilot with lots of IR experience tbh, even better if an airline pilot, even better if they fly for BA you get the idea - yes dear - she said it seems safer to me especially with the Family on board.

To be honest the low cost airlines who are so safe and reliable this is a better option if you need to get there 100% of the time. Airports are a PIA I know. Own ac fun but when kids get to Uni age and need cars houses Ryan Air is the only option really ! Damned expensive ac ownership.

[Gipsy Queen]

Originally Posted by Aware

Having been flying since 1983 been instructor examiner and a businessman in an unrelated industry, what you propose unfortunately will not work too well. As others have said let the professionals fly you and the family if you want to be almost 100% sure of getting there. Flying on business in UK in light ac is possible but so many factors makes it very unreliable, as a hobby fine with the odd trip holidays etc. IR necessary as is lots of experience. Used to operate a PA32 T - tail Lance beautiful ac, Be careful and enjoy its fun but quite demanding in many ways. My Wife always liked a safety pilot with lots of IR experience tbh, even better if an airline pilot, even better if they fly for BA you get the idea - yes dear - she said it seems safer to me especially with the Family on board.

To be honest the low cost airlines who are so safe and reliable this is a better option if you need to get there 100% of the time. Airports are a PIA I know. Own ac fun but when kids get to Uni age and need cars houses Ryan Air is the only option really ! Damned expensive ac ownership.

Well, having been there and done that, I can confirm that the cost of a/c ownership and operation invariably is greater than budget provisions. Furthermore, in my experience anyway, too much time is spent in planning, filing and all the other disciplines (not to mention weather) at the expense of the commercial activities that the aircraft is supposed to support. Too often the a/c becomes the end rather than the means thereto. Aware has provided good advice.

[Council Van]

Shorts sky van.





Airfix kit.

Would love my own light aircraft or a share so I could do some proper flying again! 17 years since I flew a piston single. The shiny jet isn't a bad way to pass the time of day but it's not 'fun flying'. Not long ago a share was available in a Cessna 120 not far from me, I was tempted but knew I could not justify the cost per year.

[Maoraigh1]

"Not long ago a share was available in a Cessna 120 not far from me, I was tempted but knew I could not justify the cost per year."
I'm surprised someone employed as a jet pilot couldn't afford the annual expence of flying a Group aircraft. Have you looked seriously for shares near you? It's probably cheaper than you think.

[Council Van]

Originally Posted by Maoraigh1

"Not long ago a share was available in a Cessna 120 not far from me, I was tempted but knew I could not justify the cost per year."
I'm surprised someone employed as a jet pilot couldn't afford the annual expence of flying a Group aircraft. Have you looked seriously for shares near you? It's probably cheaper than you think.

To be honest it was more of a bit of a nice idea' partly due to the fact that free time is not at a premium in the busy Summer season and obviously in a simple aircraft the UK weather is often not VFR friendly in the winter when I have more rostered days off.

If all became irrelevant in June for the time being as my medical has been suspended for at least 2 and a half years due to Leukemia and obviously there is a chance I might never fly again at all, never mind get a class one and be able to retuern to my airline job.

However both my teenage children want to be airline pilots and if they can not get on to one of these 'mentored schemes with the likes of easyjet' I will revisit buying a share so that they can hours build in the old school method as I did to become a flying instructor and ultimatly airine pilot.

In the mean time if any one needs a grounded airline pilot to keep them company on a nice little flight on an early June Summer evening and I am fit enough to come along for the ride by then get in touch.

I used to fly a Turbine Islands for a living, transiting back to base at 500 ft on the radio altimeter flying around the villages and properties we came across on a late Spring evening. Is there any better way to spend your life and be paid to do it as well? Best days of my flying career.

Enjoy every flight and make the most of every day as you never know what fate has in-store for you tomorrow.

Regards CV.

[frazmac]

A little update on this thread.

I completed my IR(r) course and passed my test on the same day that I flew my new pride and joy back from Devon.

I settled on an older Cherokee Six for now, and will get some hours of experience on this before contemplating whether I wish something else in a few years.

Happy flying, everyone.

[LowNSlow]

Congratulations on your new rating and aeroplane, I hope you have many happy hours using both.

[icemanalgeria]

Good advise

Originally Posted by Sam Rutherford

Whilst not nullifying your comments, three pax can be as distracting as five - and 150kts is likely to be only 20-30kts faster than the four seat they might otherwise buy. Your 180kts example is a considerably more significant (50%) increase on 120kts...

You should also be careful about buying something you might 'grow out of' very quickly.

Buy the higher performance aircraft, and invest in a 'bring along instructor' (or indeed any experienced pilot) for the first few long trips. I guarantee they'll charge little to nothing if it's a fun trip...

I used to fly as safety pilot for a businessman who bought his first aircraft ( T303 ) he built up his experience and became very competent pilot he never stopped taking me along though ( there’s a reason airlines use two pilots and believe me a holiday jet is much easier to fly than a light aircraft in Europe’s weather )

In just a few years I’ve seen too many cars parked at the flying club waiting for their owners to come back from a flight, they never returned.

look on the internet for Beech Bonanza or piper pa31 accidents.

take a safety pilot !

[Big Pistons Forever]

In the 1990's I did some part time flying for a wealthy individual with a very nice Cessna 421C. He was a very proficient pilot but did a lot of one day trips. On those he would take me and fly the morning leg to the meeting but insist I fly the leg back home at the end of the day as he would be tired and not have his head in the game. I thought he was very sensible

[IDG77]

Hi everyone,
I just got the PPL, I'm a new pilot and new to the aviation world so I have no idea what the steps are to buy an used airplane, I'd like a Cessna 152 or 172, I've seen plenty from 30.000 to 60.000 euros from 1965-1990, in Spain only one so I would have to import it from other country.
I've been looking for info on internet but haven´t found any, so can somebody explain to me the steps or tell me some website or place where I can be informed.
e.g in a car:
1-Pay the car, and make a contract with the owner/seller.
2-Go to the traffic administration office, show the car papers and contract, and pay the transmission tax (which is a percentage from car value or acquisition price) and pay the fees.
3-If it´s imported pay the new registration for the number plate (also according to the car value).
4-The car is now registered und your name.

-Is it similar with an airplane?
-Is it the same process in all E.U countries?
-Is it the same to import and U.S and E.U airplane?
-Where is all the paper work done? In Spain I guess in AESA (Aviation Safety and Security Agency)?

[Maoraigh1]

1). Get familiar with aircraft log book entries, and maintenance requirements.
2). Contact whoever will maintain your aircraft after buying.
3). Do not part with money/commit to buy until that guy has inspected it.
Many aircraft for sale can be rejected on information YOU can obtain, and show to your chosen mechanic. One cannot be sensibly bought without him examining it in person.
You'll need insurance before buying. You buy "Free of all debt".
Consider buying a share in an aircraft. Seriously consider renting until you have over 100 hours logged. Consider also Annex1 aircraft.