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UK GA Misogyny;Are Female Pilots Denigrated.

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UK GA Misogyny;Are Female Pilots Denigrated.

Old 26th Oct 2018, 15:52
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Was a time there was some sour grapes and remarks about casting couches from guys who didn't get a job they wanted because they weren't good enough but I haven't heard anything like that for about 20 years.
Other than that I haven't encountered any misogyny personally in 30 years and nearly 13,000 hours of flying professionally.
Probably about 15% of my students are women.
As for having babies, becoming a father is on of the most common reasons for students to stop training.
Women who play the gender card show a lack of respect for those who have got ahead by merit. They certainly shouldn't be seen as any kind of role model, quite the reverse.
The barrier to entry is money!
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Old 26th Oct 2018, 17:00
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My experience (copied from a similar thread):

I'm male but I gave my wife flying lessons to PPL as a wedding present. She is not stupid but found the whole subject quite alien. We men absorb quite a lot of the technical stuff over the years, many (more) of us have done physics O-level/GCSE so we know vaguely some of how an aeroplane works, we probably have picked up the principles of 4 stroke engines etc etc. All this was new to her so made the whole learning curve much steeper. She persevered and passed her GFT when 8 months pregnant. A month later she had the baby followed by another and (unsurprisingly) did not want to fly in a light aircraft again for some years and has never renewed her licence. Now she knows enough to .... comment on how I do it
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Old 26th Oct 2018, 17:08
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not a lot of spare time or money.
The barrier to entry is money!
And that's kind of the point, isn't it?
Because men on the whole get paid more than women. Not many genuine equal pay jobs around, even if the basic salary is the same the people bearing and raising the children can't do the overtime, and often have career breaks, which don't help promotion prospects. So there is less to spend on toys. Unless the higher earning partner shares the toys.
At least that's easier to do with an aeroplane than with a set of golf clubs.

A month later she had the baby followed by another and (unsurprisingly) did not want to fly in a light aircraft again for some years and has never renewed her licence
I've seen a lot of women stop flying for fun when they have a baby, and on the whole they don't start again.
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Old 26th Oct 2018, 19:16
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Originally Posted by Romeo Tango View Post
Now she knows enough to .... comment on how I do it
You brought that on yourself

chortle
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Old 26th Oct 2018, 19:22
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UK GA Misogyny;Are Female Pilots Denigrated?

I've just re-validated my UK PPL SEP Rating after a two and a half year break from 24 years of flying microlights, when I wanted to fly a heavier aeroplane I had recently bought . Because I'm a big fat b*stard I needed to fly a four seater to stay legal with another person on board for my LPC, who was going to be a chunky male examiner.

It was 26 years since I had last flown a Cessna 172 in Cyprus, but my female instructor was brilliant. She summed me and my modest abilities up very quickly, spoke quietly in the cockpit and gave positive reinforcement as I got my eye back in. Her gentle reminders and minimal but accurate criticism restored my skills very quickly. Before I did my LPC flight, a female pilot in the club who had the same female instructor passed her Skills Test with the best performance the examiner had seen all year.

I don't denigrate females at anything, they are just as capable as men, if not more so, and are often easier to teach as they don't have a male ego getting in the way of the learning process. When I was an advanced sub-aqua diving instructor, I preferred teaching women every time!
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Old 26th Oct 2018, 22:08
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So perhaps a summary is:

It's what's under the hat, not what's in the underwear, that counts.
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Old 27th Oct 2018, 13:14
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Originally Posted by Clare Prop View Post
As for having babies, becoming a father is on of the most common reasons for students to stop training.
When we started having babies I gave up flying for thirteen years - all our money was going on child care.
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Old 27th Oct 2018, 14:37
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
When we started having babies I gave up flying for thirteen years - all our money was going on child care.
I've noticed in my other interest of martial arts, a very high dropout rate of men who stop training within a few months of starting a family.

(Sadly the participation rate of women is too low to generalise about anything.)

G
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Old 27th Oct 2018, 20:59
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At my at my club we have maybe 5 or 6 ladies that fly solo in gliders, a few others enjoy flying dual, they are safe cautious pilots, it need not cost a lot, flying locally in a club glider is not expensive, or you can instruct even fly the tug. Most women have other interests that they would rather spend the cash on and I would say that their risk perception is higher that men's perception.
However like any male dominated activity you are going to encounter dinosaurs, let's not pretend they don't exist, the lady pilots that I know have ample self confidence to "handle" any sexist comments, self confidence is pretty much essential for any pilot. I will say that women make very good instructors, they are safe cautious pilots, rather than risk takers pushing the boundaries.
I don't expect there will ever be more than 10% of any pilots women, those that do enjoy it are every bit as good as the men.
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Old 27th Oct 2018, 22:09
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Originally Posted by mary meagher View Post
We women are more conservative and careful than men, who usually have more money than the girls. My first flight was over Tampa Bay, Florida, in 1944, and after that life got more complicated. With 4 kids to raise, not a lot of spare time or money. So not until 1983, noticing the gliders crossing the M40 at High Wycombe, had another go....never forget sitting in the front seat of the K13, tug towline getting tight, do I really want to do this! .....and the tug powered up, and we followed it over the hedge, and that was IT! since then, never stopped flying.
Mary kindly sent me a complimentary copy of her book,Gliding Granny, some time ago.

Now 85 she is still involved in gliding.

This from the Banbury Guardian May 2016

Gliding Granny on Final Approach

by Mary Meagher

In this fascinating book, Mary Meagher, a retired gliding instructor, tug pilot and aircraft owner, looks back over her flying life. Mary tells us how she learnt to glide, then to qualify as an instructor and to take part in flying rallies, including representing the UK in a Women´s European Championship held in the Russia. Her longest flight was over 500 kilometres and her highest to 20,300 feet. She toured Europe in her Supercub and flew hired aircraft in the USA, where she also gained a seaplane rating. One chapter examines why few women fly and gives details of some famous women pilots of the past. Because Mary is a member of the Guild of Aviation Artists, the book is illustrated with many of her beautiful paintings, as well as with superb aerial photographs.


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Old 28th Oct 2018, 08:19
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Thanks, Mike! That's me in the back seat of a K13 glider at Shenington....still sit there but need a safety pilot these days. Actually, since I lost a bit of weight its a lot easer to climb in and out!
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 22:45
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Misogyny is perhaps to strong a word. I’ll wager that there are very few misogynistic pilots, but perhaps slightly more chauvinistic ones. Generally though, I would say females in aviation are treated with the same respect as their male counterparts.

It is an unfortunate fact, however, that there are a very small minority of younger Arabic students who (because of their cultural upbringing) have problems with women in aviation. A quick “that’s not happening here” chat and they soon settle down.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 02:11
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One operator (male) prefers to employ lady drivers as he rekons they look after the machinery better than blokes. One lass was a bit miffed though, in uniform with bars and wings, and boarding pax asked if she was the hostess. Society still has a way to go to avoid stereotyping.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 02:53
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Well, my #1 daughter yesterday (today in the USA where she is) passed her PPL exam, so needless to say I'm pretty proud. As far as I know, and we discuss these things, so I think I would, she's never encountered any bias in the aviation community, either there or in Australia. However, it was quite different in her career as a software engineer when she started early this century. Fortunately, she is a strong enough person to stand up for herself, and it seems things have improved quite a bit since then.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 06:43
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Originally Posted by Genghis the Engineer View Post
I've noticed in my other interest of martial arts, a very high dropout rate of men who stop training within a few months of starting a family.

(Sadly the participation rate of women is too low to generalise about anything.)

G
Not in our dojo; Sensei, her sister and the other 7 of the 8 black belts are women, among the seniors about 90% women and among the juniors it's about 50/50, Maybe we scared all the men away?
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 08:34
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You might like to read an interview with a lady who sadly passed away on Saturday

https://london.mfa.gov.pl/en/news/po...ela_lechowicz/

RIP
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 08:49
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Thank you for that link runway30. Isabella obviously possessed the correct attitude and attributes to become a successful and professional pilot. She is a fine example to all pilots. How very tragic her life, and those of the others in the helicopter, have ended so abruptly. RIP to all.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 11:14
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Originally Posted by Clare Prop View Post
Not in our dojo; Sensei, her sister and the other 7 of the 8 black belts are women, among the seniors about 90% women and among the juniors it's about 50/50, Maybe we scared all the men away?
Out of interest, what style?

G
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 11:34
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Originally Posted by Genghis the Engineer View Post
Out of interest, what style?

G
Shotokan..
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 13:03
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Ah, suspected as such.

I think that being essentially entirely standing, with physical contact limited to hitting and kicking each other bit, karate styles like that are relatively female friendly.

For perhaps understandable reasons, Jiu Jitsu / Judo styles that involve a lot more grappling tend to be less popular. I get on very well with the local kenpo karate sensei, and offered to do a swap to give our students a bit of experience of each others styles, he refused completely as he felt that introducing grappling into his class would be extremely unpopular with his female students.

G
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