In-cockpit videos
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I've re-read this thread and just wanted to pick up on the issue of a GoPro coming loose and falling off inside the cockpit while in flight. Has anyone ever had this happen before or know of an instance where this occurred? Granted an incorrect setup of the GoPro mount will mean it will fall off, a correct installation of the GoPro shouldn't make this an issue, yes? The mounts are almost as idiot-proof as they can make it and as seen in this video, a properly applied mount can be placed on an aircraft wing and will not come off!! Timestamp 5:30 in the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlCdHcoUkZs
I'll give that test a try with the RAM mount and see how much it can tolerate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlCdHcoUkZs
I'll give that test a try with the RAM mount and see how much it can tolerate.
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Yes, I have had things come adrift in an aircraft and cause an unsafe situation. A towbar I failed to notice in the baggage compartment of a 172RG I rented bounced up while I was flying, and cracked the back window. I paid to replace the window, it was my fault.
I suggest that you not stick anything to the paint of an aircraft you do not own. Doing so might constitute a "major modification" for which an approval would be required. At the very least, if you damage the paint removing it later, you'll find out how expensive aircraft paintwork is! Paul Berterelli of AvWeb does know what he's doing, but, like so many things in aviation, the fact that an experienced pilot can tell you how to do something, does not mean you should attempt it! Leave the cameras at home, and focus on undistracted learning.
I suggest that you not stick anything to the paint of an aircraft you do not own. Doing so might constitute a "major modification" for which an approval would be required. At the very least, if you damage the paint removing it later, you'll find out how expensive aircraft paintwork is! Paul Berterelli of AvWeb does know what he's doing, but, like so many things in aviation, the fact that an experienced pilot can tell you how to do something, does not mean you should attempt it! Leave the cameras at home, and focus on undistracted learning.
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Yes, I have had things come adrift in an aircraft and cause an unsafe situation. A towbar I failed to notice in the baggage compartment of a 172RG I rented bounced up while I was flying, and cracked the back window. I paid to replace the window, it was my fault.
I suggest that you not stick anything to the paint of an aircraft you do not own. Doing so might constitute a "major modification" for which an approval would be required. At the very least, if you damage the paint removing it later, you'll find out how expensive aircraft paintwork is! Paul Berterelli of AvWeb does know what he's doing, but, like so many things in aviation, the fact that an experienced pilot can tell you how to do something, does not mean you should attempt it! Leave the cameras at home, and focus on undistracted learning.
I suggest that you not stick anything to the paint of an aircraft you do not own. Doing so might constitute a "major modification" for which an approval would be required. At the very least, if you damage the paint removing it later, you'll find out how expensive aircraft paintwork is! Paul Berterelli of AvWeb does know what he's doing, but, like so many things in aviation, the fact that an experienced pilot can tell you how to do something, does not mean you should attempt it! Leave the cameras at home, and focus on undistracted learning.
While I certainly appreciate the warnings regarding putting cameras in the cockpit, I am still confused as to how people automatically assume that I would be distracted with using this setup. The idea is to have it simple and quick to set up, turn it on, and then forget about it until after the flight. The only time I think I will be distracted by using a camera is if it falls off during the flight.
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Also, the suction mount works by (duh) suction, so by creating a pressure differential between the air pressure under the cup, and the outside world. However, as soon as you start flying the ambient pressure goes down. This also decreases the pressure differential, to the point where it may not be strong enough anymore to hold the GoPro in place.
Both reasons may cause a GoPro that seems to be properly attached on the ground, to fall off while in the air. I've had both happen to me.
Oh, and another thing about tethers and cameras on the outside. If you mount your camera to the outside and tether it, make sure the tether is long enough so the camera sits behind the wing/fuselage should the suction mount go. If it's not long enough and the suction cup does let go, the camera will bounce against the fuselage/wing, and will do significantly more damage than what the camera is worth. In that case, better not to tether it at all. And, of course, make sure the tether is not in any way able to foul a control.
That's all from actual experience when GoPros were still hot and happening. Five years later, and I can fully understand why authorities, clubs and owners simply forbid placing cameras on the outside. Heck, I have even seen people put GoPros on flight control surfaces (including ailerons and elevators). When I pointed out that that would significantly alter the balance and flutter characteristics of the flight control, they were just giving me that vacant blank stare. No clue what they were doing.
whilst I have been joking earlier in the thread I did remember another reason why I stopped using my go pro.
I was training in a PA38 at a busy flight school. The aircraft were in use for the majority of the day so when my turn came I would have to walk out on to the apron with my instructor to carry out the walk around/ refuel etc. after the external checks were complete the two of us would climb into the plane and you would be expected to start on the internal checklist/getting the ATIS etc.
There wasn't really a good opportunity to turn around and stick the suction mount onto the rear window and then switch it on without disrupting the lesson.
This is why the first good footage was of my solo flight because I had the time to do this without anyone else in the cockpit.
I was training in a PA38 at a busy flight school. The aircraft were in use for the majority of the day so when my turn came I would have to walk out on to the apron with my instructor to carry out the walk around/ refuel etc. after the external checks were complete the two of us would climb into the plane and you would be expected to start on the internal checklist/getting the ATIS etc.
There wasn't really a good opportunity to turn around and stick the suction mount onto the rear window and then switch it on without disrupting the lesson.
This is why the first good footage was of my solo flight because I had the time to do this without anyone else in the cockpit.
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Thanks for the warning, BackPacker! Can you tell me more about the issues you had with GoPros? What happened and how did you deal with it during flight? No plan to mount anything external at the moment, and would really, really need to see a good reason to risk a £300 device before doing so. At the moment, all plans are to have the GoPros inside the cockpit positioned more for flight review than for sightseeing.
Suction mount -- flying GA with unpressurized cabins, can the ambient pressure really go down that much as to render a suction cup useless? I'm talking about RAM suction mounts as well. Obviously not all suction devices are created equal!
Tether -- again, no plans of mounting externally and will only consider tethering the GoPro inside the cockpit so that if it falls off, it's still "secure" and not a threat to any instrument or control device.
No clue -- sadly, I've worked with enough "healthcare professionals" to know exactly the vacant blank stare you're talking about!
artschool, thanks for sharing your experience! I've yet to have a look inside a PA-38 to figure out where/how to mount a GoPro but I've looked inside a PA-28 and have noticed a pre-existing instrument mount still attached, so assuming the placement is suitable for me, all I need to do is slide/clip my GoPro there and I'm done. The second GoPro will most likely be on a RAM mount with suction that I'll attach to the front-right windshield or on the door window, so again, a 5-second installation and done. I'll have a couple of trials before the actual flight to confirm camera placement and angles and have a few practice runs of attaching/detaching the equipment, but it should be quick and easy. At least it does in my head!
It seems like I won't exactly be getting the help I wanted from this thread as almost 30 posts on, I've still got no replies that are direct answers to my initial queries, so to those who are all doom-and-gloom about this idea, I would greatly appreciate sharing actual experiences I (and anyone else) can learn from!
To those who are saying recording ATC audio and putting it in YouTube is illegal, can you help me find the source for this claim? I've come across at least three channels where the pilots fly in the UK and have ATC audio, even has "ATC audio" in some of the video titles! So it's not like they're hiding the fact! Combined, they have well over 22+K subscribers and over 200+ videos (although granted, probably not all have ATC audio), but I'm not sure how "big" those channels are with respect to GA YouTube channels.
Suction mount -- flying GA with unpressurized cabins, can the ambient pressure really go down that much as to render a suction cup useless? I'm talking about RAM suction mounts as well. Obviously not all suction devices are created equal!
Tether -- again, no plans of mounting externally and will only consider tethering the GoPro inside the cockpit so that if it falls off, it's still "secure" and not a threat to any instrument or control device.
No clue -- sadly, I've worked with enough "healthcare professionals" to know exactly the vacant blank stare you're talking about!
artschool, thanks for sharing your experience! I've yet to have a look inside a PA-38 to figure out where/how to mount a GoPro but I've looked inside a PA-28 and have noticed a pre-existing instrument mount still attached, so assuming the placement is suitable for me, all I need to do is slide/clip my GoPro there and I'm done. The second GoPro will most likely be on a RAM mount with suction that I'll attach to the front-right windshield or on the door window, so again, a 5-second installation and done. I'll have a couple of trials before the actual flight to confirm camera placement and angles and have a few practice runs of attaching/detaching the equipment, but it should be quick and easy. At least it does in my head!
It seems like I won't exactly be getting the help I wanted from this thread as almost 30 posts on, I've still got no replies that are direct answers to my initial queries, so to those who are all doom-and-gloom about this idea, I would greatly appreciate sharing actual experiences I (and anyone else) can learn from!
To those who are saying recording ATC audio and putting it in YouTube is illegal, can you help me find the source for this claim? I've come across at least three channels where the pilots fly in the UK and have ATC audio, even has "ATC audio" in some of the video titles! So it's not like they're hiding the fact! Combined, they have well over 22+K subscribers and over 200+ videos (although granted, probably not all have ATC audio), but I'm not sure how "big" those channels are with respect to GA YouTube channels.
It seems like I won't exactly be getting the help I wanted from this thread as almost 30 posts on, I've still got no replies that are direct answers to my initial queries, so to those who are all doom-and-gloom about this idea, I would greatly appreciate sharing actual experiences I (and anyone else) can learn from!
I can't give you actual experiences because I don't allow cameras. If you were learning where I instruct you would not be allowed anyway but, even so, there isn't enough time between aircraft trips (you won't be the only one using the aircraft) for you to fix cameras and sort audio. Just concentrate on the instruction you get - it really will get you through. Your instructor will ensure you have completed the exercise satisfactorily before moving on and each stage will be reinforced throughout your training.
Last edited by rarelyathome; 22nd Oct 2018 at 19:17.
in an effort to be more helpful! I also found this go pro remote to be useful as I didn't want to get distracted looking at the front of the camera to see if it was recording. it also meant that I was able to wait until we had finished taxying and the power checks before starting the camera to save on battery power.
this was the suction mount I used. I never had a problem with it losing suction.
this was the suction mount I used. I never had a problem with it losing suction.
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Probably because you're not really hearing everybody that is telling you it's not a good idea. You will need to be aware of confirmation bias when you are flying and all your replies seem to be trying to confirm your own decision that yours is a good idea.
I can't give you actual experiences because I don't allow cameras. If you were learning where I instruct you would not be allowed anyway but, even so, there isn't enough time between aircraft trips (you won't be the only one using the aircraft) for you to fix cameras and sort audio. Just concentrate on the instruction you get - it really will get you through. Your instructor will ensure you have completed the exercise satisfactorily before moving on and each stage will be reinforced throughout your training.
I can't give you actual experiences because I don't allow cameras. If you were learning where I instruct you would not be allowed anyway but, even so, there isn't enough time between aircraft trips (you won't be the only one using the aircraft) for you to fix cameras and sort audio. Just concentrate on the instruction you get - it really will get you through. Your instructor will ensure you have completed the exercise satisfactorily before moving on and each stage will be reinforced throughout your training.
Trust me, I'm reading and assessing every reply. What some people seem to miss is that people learn in different ways and having the footage and audio for me to review at my own leisure, without any time pressure, is invaluable. Imagine taking down notes during class, but instead of being reliant on the teacher talking slowly or your writing quickly, this method allows me to take down everything and review at a later date.
So far, the main issues seem to be:
distraction -- I plan to set-it-and-forget-it, and attach the cameras to tethers so as not to be an immediate flight risk if it falls off the mount.
unsecured item -- should be dealt with considering stuff will be tethered, but if a camera were still to fall to the floor, straight-and-level to retrieve it if necessary. As airpolice said, there are other items more likely to be "lost" in the cockpit than a properly attached GoPro.
flying for the camera -- I'm old enough to not care how I look at work and most social events; I wouldn't care how I look like in video intended for flight performance review. Maybe if I was auditioning for Top Gun 2....
school/instructor -- already got the approval for this under certain conditions. I will be sure to secure permission should I decide to post anything online, but for now, the videos are for private viewing only and I have the approval of both the school and the instructor.
setup time -- the initial setup will take time, which is why the initial setup will be done before my actual flight. On the day, the only setup required will be to slide the top GoPro on the ceiling mount, attach the side GoPro to the windscreen via the RAM suction mount, and plug the audio recorder alongside the headset. Done!! With the screws tight enough and a wide FOV, camera FOV isn't that much of an issue. I'm honestly confused at why people think the setup time will take long? When you go and park your aircraft, is the next student and instructor there ready and you just hot-swap and therefore there is absolutely no time to remove a GoPro camera?
To be fair, if I was talking about the 8-camera setup above, then I can see how setup time will be an issue but again, by that time, he's doing solo-hire of the aircraft so he can probably take however long he wants so setup time isn't that much of an issue.
legality -- I'll need to confirm with the school here but so far, I've not seen references cited regarding recording of ATC and restricted areas. I'm quite sure we won't be practicing flying near such an area but again, I'll double-check with the school prior to the flight. On the other hand, there are quite a few YouTube channels with ATC comms included in the video so if it was such a bad thing to do, how come these channels are still up?
Have I missed any issues?
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artschool, not sure if your post about wifi and suction mounts is serious or is another joke, but I thought wifi-related items are prohibited in the cockpit? If you are serious though, all I need to do is look back and look at the ceiling camera to see if the red dot is on to denote the camera is recording and then look at the side camera, again looking for that red dot. 5-10 seconds, done.
As for the suction mount, I'll be using a RAM mount which I'm under the impression is more robust than GoPro's own suction mount and the ball system that RAM uses allows me better adjustability than the GoPro system. If that proves inadequate, I think RAM makes suction mounts with up to three suction bases or I can install a GoPro adhesive mount and use a RAM ball adapter for the GoPro mount.
BTW, this guy is clearly testing all those cameras and doing it this way provides a more controlled testing system!!
Joking aside, have a look at how people compare cameras and the mounts they use/make to have a fair testing method.
As for the suction mount, I'll be using a RAM mount which I'm under the impression is more robust than GoPro's own suction mount and the ball system that RAM uses allows me better adjustability than the GoPro system. If that proves inadequate, I think RAM makes suction mounts with up to three suction bases or I can install a GoPro adhesive mount and use a RAM ball adapter for the GoPro mount.
BTW, this guy is clearly testing all those cameras and doing it this way provides a more controlled testing system!!
Joking aside, have a look at how people compare cameras and the mounts they use/make to have a fair testing method.
artschool, not sure if your post about wifi and suction mounts is serious or is another joke, but I thought wifi-related items are prohibited in the cockpit? If you are serious though, all I need to do is look back and look at the ceiling camera to see if the red dot is on to denote the camera is recording and then look at the side camera, again looking for that red dot. 5-10 seconds, done.
As for the suction mount, I'll be using a RAM mount which I'm under the impression is more robust than GoPro's own suction mount and the ball system that RAM uses allows me better adjustability than the GoPro system. If that proves inadequate, I think RAM makes suction mounts with up to three suction bases or I can install a GoPro adhesive mount and use a RAM ball adapter for the GoPro mount.
Joking aside, have a look at how people compare cameras and the mounts they use/make to have a fair testing method.
As for the suction mount, I'll be using a RAM mount which I'm under the impression is more robust than GoPro's own suction mount and the ball system that RAM uses allows me better adjustability than the GoPro system. If that proves inadequate, I think RAM makes suction mounts with up to three suction bases or I can install a GoPro adhesive mount and use a RAM ball adapter for the GoPro mount.
Joking aside, have a look at how people compare cameras and the mounts they use/make to have a fair testing method.
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I can't remember where I read it to be honest. If that is allowed and it can tie into multiple GoPros (website says up to 50!), that may be a useful addition to just press one button and all cameras turn on, but with just two cameras and a £80 price tag on that controller, I think it's a bit dear for now.
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It seems like I won't exactly be getting the help I wanted from this thread as almost 30 posts on, I've still got no replies that are direct answers to my initial queries, so to those who are all doom-and-gloom about this idea, I would greatly appreciate sharing actual experiences I (and anyone else) can learn from!
I'm not saying that videoing is necessarily bad, certainly I've done it a little, but I'm also a very experienced pilot, who owns the planes in which the video was taken. A less experienced pilot in someone else's plane is distracted from learning to make the camera work. If you're at the airport, you should be 100% concentrating on learning to fly the whole time you're with the plane and instructor. A five minute fiddle before and after the flight, is ten minutes of learning lost. If you're thinking about the video being recorded as you're flying, you're not thinking about the flying you should be focused on.
If a student came to me with a camera, I would tell that student to put it back in their car. When students have come with Ipads to navigate around the circuit, I have told them to put the Ipad away. I learned to tell the student to put it away, 'cause the first one I put away for the student, I put in a seat pocket, and the screen was broken when he pulled it out. Fortunate that we found this after the flight, or my student would have spent the hour and a half of circuits thinking about his broken Ipad! But, in any case, no distractions in the cockpit! I've seen all kinds of gadgets brought to the cockpit, suction cups, cords, things clamped to controls. One student for advanced training (admittedly in his C 182) had three Ipads installed - for circuits and airwork! I could not reach the engine controls from my side. We did not fly until two of the Ipads were removed. I have adopted a philosophy of sterile learning environment - if it is not needed for the lesson, it's not there being a distraction. When you have your PPL, and you own the plane then it will be time to re-evaluate, because yes, there will come a time when video is nice, just not when you're supposed to be learning the basics.
I can claim confirmation bias on the other side of the coin as well! At least there were a few here who have advised caution rather than an outright refusal to entertain the notion. You say you don't allow cameras, but you don't say why? Is there a solid reason behind your policy? Or just personal preference? If the reason for your policy is based on sound evidence and there is absolutely no way to mount a camera that will "fix" the issue, then fair enough.
Trust me, I'm reading and assessing every reply. What some people seem to miss is that people learn in different ways and having the footage and audio for me to review at my own leisure, without any time pressure, is invaluable. Imagine taking down notes during class, but instead of being reliant on the teacher talking slowly or your writing quickly, this method allows me to take down everything and review at a later date.
Trust me, I'm reading and assessing every reply. What some people seem to miss is that people learn in different ways and having the footage and audio for me to review at my own leisure, without any time pressure, is invaluable. Imagine taking down notes during class, but instead of being reliant on the teacher talking slowly or your writing quickly, this method allows me to take down everything and review at a later date.
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Nurse2pilot, before you clutter up your lookout (lack of attention to your lookout may lead to unpleasant surprises), if you intend to learn to fly and are not planning to immediately buy your own aircraft, don't waste your time by pandering your ego with cameras. Like many others who have given you good advice on this forum, your early flying will demand your absolute attention. I began flying at the age of 50 at Booker Gliding Club, went on to get my pilots license at the Wycombe Air Centre, took up towing up gliders, which demands careful attention, and that does NOT include taking photos or looking at the instruments. After that, my first flight in competition was at Lasham, where 100 gliders were launched on the task of the day. Believe me, we all kept a jolly good lookout. Since then flew in Russia and in Europe, and of course in the United States, Texas, Florida, Michigan and New Jersey. Now still flying at 85 but with a safety pilot, am pleased to report that I have never bent an aircraft. Or a car for that matter. And the only reason to use a camera in a glider used to be in a steep bank over the turning point.
This is all my opinion but I have flown with students who have used cameras during their lessons.
2 steps back. What is the actual objective - what exactly is the information you are trying to record?
I can see value in recording audio - it will help you understand and get comfortable with procedures and also could help you realise where the instructor keeps saying the same thing and you are not quite registering what they mean as you are a bit overloaded (not uncommon in early stages of your training).
As for video - if recording video of your control inputs... not so sure that will help (other than identify if you tend to overcontrol or tense up or are not trimming) but your instructor will be aware of that anyway and tell you at the time. Operating the controls cannot be taught by watching.
Recording video directly of you while flying - might be fun to watch your facial expressions maybe!
as far as educational - maybe not so much
Recording the view out the front - this may help learning to recognise attitudes and also judge appropriate perspectives/aiming points on approaches so I can see some value here, at least early on.
My 2c If you really want to record video of the lessons and use it for assistance in your training, my thought would be keep it simple, a single camera, mounted behind you looking forward and work out some way to get audio recorded of your instructor's patter and radio. I suspect you may find the audio recording to perhaps be of more value than the video but may be wrong. I don't think you need the greatest technology - it is not for public display - just for your personal education so wouldn't worry about quality - more secure attachment and appropriate view.
I have flown with suction cap cameras mounted in the cockpit and have had them drop off at inconvenient times - more an annoyance than a drama, especially with 2 people in the cockpit but it could be a drama if you are early solo and you get distracted by a wayward camera dropping off at an inconvenient time.
2 steps back. What is the actual objective - what exactly is the information you are trying to record?
I can see value in recording audio - it will help you understand and get comfortable with procedures and also could help you realise where the instructor keeps saying the same thing and you are not quite registering what they mean as you are a bit overloaded (not uncommon in early stages of your training).
As for video - if recording video of your control inputs... not so sure that will help (other than identify if you tend to overcontrol or tense up or are not trimming) but your instructor will be aware of that anyway and tell you at the time. Operating the controls cannot be taught by watching.
Recording video directly of you while flying - might be fun to watch your facial expressions maybe!
as far as educational - maybe not so much
Recording the view out the front - this may help learning to recognise attitudes and also judge appropriate perspectives/aiming points on approaches so I can see some value here, at least early on.
My 2c If you really want to record video of the lessons and use it for assistance in your training, my thought would be keep it simple, a single camera, mounted behind you looking forward and work out some way to get audio recorded of your instructor's patter and radio. I suspect you may find the audio recording to perhaps be of more value than the video but may be wrong. I don't think you need the greatest technology - it is not for public display - just for your personal education so wouldn't worry about quality - more secure attachment and appropriate view.
I have flown with suction cap cameras mounted in the cockpit and have had them drop off at inconvenient times - more an annoyance than a drama, especially with 2 people in the cockpit but it could be a drama if you are early solo and you get distracted by a wayward camera dropping off at an inconvenient time.
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Thanks for the replies guys!
9 lives -- I fully appreciate what you're saying and have taken that into consideration. Setup time prior to the flight will take a good few menutes, but setup time on the day of the flight should take 5 minutes tops (install and take down), if not shorter. I've not exactly timed myself doing this, but how long does it take to clip a GoPro onto a pre-installed adhesive mount? How long does it take to stick on a suction cup? Press two buttons, done!
While I appreciate learning from someone else's mistakes, the purpose of taking my own video is finding my own mistakes. Once the video is on, the idea is to forget about it and fly. By nature, I'm constantly worried about missing stuff or forgetting about stuff so video recording is done so that I don't have to think about those worries. Also, for a learning environment, I expect to be over-saturated with info on flying so being able to review at my leisure is what makes this worth the extra hassle.
I totally understand what you say about iPads though and you'll have to admit, their purpose for those gadgets are very, very different from my purpose with regards to recording my flights! I'm 100% with you against iPads in the cockpit especially for students, but this is because I understand that they were intending to refer to or fiddle with the iPads during flight. I have no intention of even thinking about the GoPros while in flight except in the case of one falling off and it's only to retrieve it to ensure it doesn't end up where it doesn't belong.
rarelyathome -- I would like to thank you for sharing your thoughts regarding my concerns, but let me repeat my questions... why don't you allow cameras? Is it based on sound evidence or personal preference?
You claim that this is not a good idea, but how can you know if you don't allow cameras? You say there isn't time between aircraft trips; either your school is really, really busy or that you're thinking camera setup is more complex and time-consuming than it actually is. Do you have time under your belt doing camera setups and audio recording?
As for learning in different ways, do consider that fighter pilots record their flights via ACMI (Air Combat Maneuvering Instrumentation) and play it back and scrutinize every single detail and decision-making instances during their flight. As such, I'm taking a leaf out of their book.
mary meagher -- point taken regarding clutter and that is why the plan is for two cameras for now, one behind the pilot's head so very minimal obstruction, if any, and the other one just between the dash and the window, so while this will obstruct the view, it's done so that it's not by very much.
I would like to restate that this has 100% to do with review and learning and 0% to do with ego. I don't blame you for making that assumption though, what with Facebook and selfies everywhere. I assure you I'm the odd guy for my generation --- my Facebook profile picture is only one picture and it's 9+ years old. I take pictures of places I go to and not bothered if my face is in it or not. I prefer eating the food and have zero interest of taking a picture of it and posting it to Facebook or Instagram.... I don't even have an Instagram account! I've missed quite a few parties with friends because the invite was done via Facebook and so I've missed it. So please guys, understand the reasons why I'm doing this and my intended benefits instead of responding to your own assumptions.
As I said before, it seems like I won't be getting answers to questions in my first two posts but I do appreciate people bringing issues to my attention. I feel like I've responded to all issues brought up and have thought up a solution to these issues; if anyone can think of new problems that may arise or that I've not adequately "solved" an issue, I'd be very grateful if they can point it out!
I realize that while I may not be getting the help I was asking for, I'm getting help nevertheless and I appreciate that!
9 lives -- I fully appreciate what you're saying and have taken that into consideration. Setup time prior to the flight will take a good few menutes, but setup time on the day of the flight should take 5 minutes tops (install and take down), if not shorter. I've not exactly timed myself doing this, but how long does it take to clip a GoPro onto a pre-installed adhesive mount? How long does it take to stick on a suction cup? Press two buttons, done!
While I appreciate learning from someone else's mistakes, the purpose of taking my own video is finding my own mistakes. Once the video is on, the idea is to forget about it and fly. By nature, I'm constantly worried about missing stuff or forgetting about stuff so video recording is done so that I don't have to think about those worries. Also, for a learning environment, I expect to be over-saturated with info on flying so being able to review at my leisure is what makes this worth the extra hassle.
I totally understand what you say about iPads though and you'll have to admit, their purpose for those gadgets are very, very different from my purpose with regards to recording my flights! I'm 100% with you against iPads in the cockpit especially for students, but this is because I understand that they were intending to refer to or fiddle with the iPads during flight. I have no intention of even thinking about the GoPros while in flight except in the case of one falling off and it's only to retrieve it to ensure it doesn't end up where it doesn't belong.
rarelyathome -- I would like to thank you for sharing your thoughts regarding my concerns, but let me repeat my questions... why don't you allow cameras? Is it based on sound evidence or personal preference?
You claim that this is not a good idea, but how can you know if you don't allow cameras? You say there isn't time between aircraft trips; either your school is really, really busy or that you're thinking camera setup is more complex and time-consuming than it actually is. Do you have time under your belt doing camera setups and audio recording?
As for learning in different ways, do consider that fighter pilots record their flights via ACMI (Air Combat Maneuvering Instrumentation) and play it back and scrutinize every single detail and decision-making instances during their flight. As such, I'm taking a leaf out of their book.
mary meagher -- point taken regarding clutter and that is why the plan is for two cameras for now, one behind the pilot's head so very minimal obstruction, if any, and the other one just between the dash and the window, so while this will obstruct the view, it's done so that it's not by very much.
I would like to restate that this has 100% to do with review and learning and 0% to do with ego. I don't blame you for making that assumption though, what with Facebook and selfies everywhere. I assure you I'm the odd guy for my generation --- my Facebook profile picture is only one picture and it's 9+ years old. I take pictures of places I go to and not bothered if my face is in it or not. I prefer eating the food and have zero interest of taking a picture of it and posting it to Facebook or Instagram.... I don't even have an Instagram account! I've missed quite a few parties with friends because the invite was done via Facebook and so I've missed it. So please guys, understand the reasons why I'm doing this and my intended benefits instead of responding to your own assumptions.
As I said before, it seems like I won't be getting answers to questions in my first two posts but I do appreciate people bringing issues to my attention. I feel like I've responded to all issues brought up and have thought up a solution to these issues; if anyone can think of new problems that may arise or that I've not adequately "solved" an issue, I'd be very grateful if they can point it out!
I realize that while I may not be getting the help I was asking for, I'm getting help nevertheless and I appreciate that!
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jonkster, I very much appreciate your reply. Can you tell me what suction cup was used that was inadequate?
The main objective here is recording the flight and what I am doing during various stages of flight. What information can I glean from doing this? I'm not exactly sure, but here's a video by Stefan Drury and an aborted takeoff
By recording his flight, he was able to capture this incident and examine his reaction during the incident. At the 5:00 mark, he examined his reaction time from noticing the incident and taking the appropriate action. If it was my video, my questions would be 1) did I take too long to act? or too soon? 2) was the incident occurring for some time before I noticed it? 3) was my reaction appropriate to the incident? 4) what did I do after the incident?
You can also see the placement of his second camera; I intend to do the same, but on the instructor's side rather than on mine. I just think that'll give me a bigger FOV of what I'm doing and thus give more info compared to a closer-up video. This video by Stefan is also one of the videos that sold me on a 2-camera setup instead of just one.
As for audio, I am fascinated by ATC chatter but at the same time, talking on the radio would be a weird and new experience for me so being able to record and listen to how it's done, I feel that would help greatly in my learning. It would also help me identify mistakes in my radio calls, again helping me fix any issues sooner rather than later.
The main objective here is recording the flight and what I am doing during various stages of flight. What information can I glean from doing this? I'm not exactly sure, but here's a video by Stefan Drury and an aborted takeoff
By recording his flight, he was able to capture this incident and examine his reaction during the incident. At the 5:00 mark, he examined his reaction time from noticing the incident and taking the appropriate action. If it was my video, my questions would be 1) did I take too long to act? or too soon? 2) was the incident occurring for some time before I noticed it? 3) was my reaction appropriate to the incident? 4) what did I do after the incident?
You can also see the placement of his second camera; I intend to do the same, but on the instructor's side rather than on mine. I just think that'll give me a bigger FOV of what I'm doing and thus give more info compared to a closer-up video. This video by Stefan is also one of the videos that sold me on a 2-camera setup instead of just one.
As for audio, I am fascinated by ATC chatter but at the same time, talking on the radio would be a weird and new experience for me so being able to record and listen to how it's done, I feel that would help greatly in my learning. It would also help me identify mistakes in my radio calls, again helping me fix any issues sooner rather than later.
I flew with someone just recently who had several cameras mounted around the cockpit using suction caps, these ones had 3 suction caps per camera on a kind of 3 legged spider. I can imagine that would be pretty secure. Took up a bit of screen real estate though.
I have to admit I am a bit old school (or perhaps neanderthal... I think the ideal training aircraft has a tail wheel and minimal instrumentation/equipment/distractions
) and suspect particularly for ab-initio training, a camera probably more for fun than for training value but everyone is different and if you find it useful and an instructor happy to accomodate you and you do it safely/responsibly - why not.Up to you. Whatever way you go, I would just say don't make it too complicated or distracting during the lesson.