2018 Light Aircraft Association AGM award vote
God, no. The situation isn't important enough to any of the LAA members (bar one) to cause that much additional work and disruption to the Association.
Take a vote, draw a line under the result - whatever it is - and move on.
As somebody has already pointed out, her target audience is the uninformed public, not us. Her peers will have their own informed view and she must now live with that.
Take a vote, draw a line under the result - whatever it is - and move on.
As somebody has already pointed out, her target audience is the uninformed public, not us. Her peers will have their own informed view and she must now live with that.
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Well Captain - what an interesting view. Paid up shareholder and not allowed to vote - falls foul of company law for the first objection. Secondly who are these carpet baggers and mischief makers? I was certainly one of the proxy votes against T-CT in 2016. I was appalled at the idea of the award having been given to someone for whom the truth is an inconvenience compared to making money.
But in my circle of people, no one is signing up to join the LAA to stop T-CT, indeed were it not for the fact I own a permit aircraft, I would be resigning my membership (only been in for 30 years), as a protest against the poor management from the committee. I think the technical work the association does is first class, the stuff the blazer brigade does is pretty poor, from the patron on downwards - any amount of due diligence (a legal requirement for directors) would have meant T-CT would never have been given the award. Since then the committee have twisted themselves in knots rather than simply face up to the lies and tell her where to go.
I think you need to review some of the horrible facts before lurching off in any particular direction.
But in my circle of people, no one is signing up to join the LAA to stop T-CT, indeed were it not for the fact I own a permit aircraft, I would be resigning my membership (only been in for 30 years), as a protest against the poor management from the committee. I think the technical work the association does is first class, the stuff the blazer brigade does is pretty poor, from the patron on downwards - any amount of due diligence (a legal requirement for directors) would have meant T-CT would never have been given the award. Since then the committee have twisted themselves in knots rather than simply face up to the lies and tell her where to go.
I think you need to review some of the horrible facts before lurching off in any particular direction.
I hope you'll forgive me if I write that you appear to have a limited understanding. The LAA are not perfect; as befits an organisation run by people and not robots. They are, on the whole, a rather competent and well organised administration that occasionally and rarely gets 'things' wrong. As for 'blazers,' that image disappeared a long time ago !
My opinion of the TC-T debacle is that the LAA were unduly influenced by what some saw as the prospect of some political correctness brownie points to be gained by promoting the 'achievements' of a well publicised aviatrix. They did not then enquire too closely. TC-T is undoubtedly the architect of her own misfortune. I think that her downfall is complete and it is difficult to see how she can recover but, time will tell.
I entirely fail to see what more can be gained by twisting the knife. Further sanction against TC-T is unkind and lacking in elementary generosity. On a technical note, the Articles of Association of a company tell you what it can or cannot do. Shareholders can hold either voting or non voting shares. Voting can be limited by time - it depends on what is in the A of A. or what is decided by the Directors
My opinion of the TC-T debacle is that the LAA were unduly influenced by what some saw as the prospect of some political correctness brownie points to be gained by promoting the 'achievements' of a well publicised aviatrix. They did not then enquire too closely. TC-T is undoubtedly the architect of her own misfortune. I think that her downfall is complete and it is difficult to see how she can recover but, time will tell.
I entirely fail to see what more can be gained by twisting the knife. Further sanction against TC-T is unkind and lacking in elementary generosity. On a technical note, the Articles of Association of a company tell you what it can or cannot do. Shareholders can hold either voting or non voting shares. Voting can be limited by time - it depends on what is in the A of A. or what is decided by the Directors
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I hope you'll forgive me if I write that you appear to have a limited understanding. The LAA are not perfect; as befits an organisation run by people and not robots. They are, on the whole, a rather competent and well organised administration that occasionally and rarely gets 'things' wrong. As for 'blazers,' that image disappeared a long time ago !
My opinion of the TC-T debacle is that the LAA were unduly influenced by what some saw as the prospect of some political correctness brownie points to be gained by promoting the 'achievements' of a well publicised aviatrix. They did not then enquire too closely. TC-T is undoubtedly the architect of her own misfortune. I think that her downfall is complete and it is difficult to see how she can recover but, time will tell.
I entirely fail to see what more can be gained by twisting the knife. Further sanction against TC-T is unkind and lacking in elementary generosity. On a technical note, the Articles of Association of a company tell you what it can or cannot do. Shareholders can hold either voting or non voting shares. Voting can be limited by time - it depends on what is in the A of A. or what is decided by the Directors
My opinion of the TC-T debacle is that the LAA were unduly influenced by what some saw as the prospect of some political correctness brownie points to be gained by promoting the 'achievements' of a well publicised aviatrix. They did not then enquire too closely. TC-T is undoubtedly the architect of her own misfortune. I think that her downfall is complete and it is difficult to see how she can recover but, time will tell.
I entirely fail to see what more can be gained by twisting the knife. Further sanction against TC-T is unkind and lacking in elementary generosity. On a technical note, the Articles of Association of a company tell you what it can or cannot do. Shareholders can hold either voting or non voting shares. Voting can be limited by time - it depends on what is in the A of A. or what is decided by the Directors
Although it could, perhaps, be argued that her actions and the way she has responded have brought the LAA into disrepute: I don’t think any further sanction is justified either but, unless she provides answers and a convincing argument, neither can I see a sensible reason why the association would be justified in restoring the award.
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It is she who keeps popping up on LAA HangarChat . She actually says nothing in any of her posts , other than her normal , standard sound bites . She hasn't answered any of the things that everyone wants to see answered . All she does is lob the odd molotov cocktail in to the arena to keep the flames burning , and then disappears again.
Twisting the knife is irony indeed ! Don't forget that 6 weeks ago , everything was all nice and peaceful , the other PPRuNe thread was locked down and she had done a talk at Sywell which at the time was quite well received .
No , I don't see what there is to be gained by twisting the knife either ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,But it's her that's twisting it !
Which is...Yes, she has brought all of this on herself the good and the bad. There is no "downfall" only a pilot who has been rumbled by those who had sufficient knowledge to ask further questions and start uncovering the charade. She has lost credibility because it is just so hard to separate fact from fiction in whatever she says. She has lost respect for not accepting the root cause of all of this mess.
It is easy to see how she can recover. She can start by answering her critics with straight and honest replies. She can then start taking responsibility for what has happened and do her utmost it never occurs again. She says she is going to fly Cape to Alaska - well do it as advertised with no embellishment, no lies, no shady hiding away of the front seat passenger. Make it a team effort and gain respect again for being a team player. The moment ANY false article appears in the papers or on the news then she needs to be all over it like a rash to correct it. The moment anyone or any important body offers HER an award she simply declines it or says "this is a team effort".
The road to recovery is there for her. We "Vile internet trolls" are frustrated by her continued deception and that there are a close cadre of her followers who just refuse to see the problem so we become the problem. Yet it is the Vile Internet Trolls that have suggested the course she needs to take. Her friends stand by and steer her into self destruction.
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Apparently we can wait for answers in her book when it is finished?
by Tracey Curtis-Taylor » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:01 am
Here are the reasons why I’m not answering insistent questions about my flights.
1. There is too much to say for a chat forum. They’re a chapter in the book when I finish it.
2. Anyone who can’t wait could contact me, although it does seem that the obsessive few don’t seek answers, but rather fuel for their indignation.
3. They are irrelevant to the 2018 motions, which in different ways seek to redress the irrelevance of the 2016 motion. Even if I were the self-promoting charlatan that some think I am, there was absolutely no evidence that this brought the LAA ‘into disrepute’. I did not solicit the 2014 Woodhams Award (relating to one flight only) and – though honoured to receive it – I did not promote myself on the back of either the award or of my membership of the LAA. Whatever they thought (if anything) of me, neither the general public nor the aviation world thought any differently about the LAA. The only people shouting about it were Sam Rutherford and his associates. The premise of the 2016 motion was nonsense and The LAA Board was unwise to blunder into a campaign of what was – dress it up as you may – personal vilification.
Here are the reasons why I’m not answering insistent questions about my flights.
1. There is too much to say for a chat forum. They’re a chapter in the book when I finish it.
2. Anyone who can’t wait could contact me, although it does seem that the obsessive few don’t seek answers, but rather fuel for their indignation.
3. They are irrelevant to the 2018 motions, which in different ways seek to redress the irrelevance of the 2016 motion. Even if I were the self-promoting charlatan that some think I am, there was absolutely no evidence that this brought the LAA ‘into disrepute’. I did not solicit the 2014 Woodhams Award (relating to one flight only) and – though honoured to receive it – I did not promote myself on the back of either the award or of my membership of the LAA. Whatever they thought (if anything) of me, neither the general public nor the aviation world thought any differently about the LAA. The only people shouting about it were Sam Rutherford and his associates. The premise of the 2016 motion was nonsense and The LAA Board was unwise to blunder into a campaign of what was – dress it up as you may – personal vilification.
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2. Anyone who can’t wait could contact me, although it does seem that the obsessive few don’t seek answers, but rather fuel for their indignation.
Also, I’m not indignant: just sad that a respected organisation like the LAA should have its reputation tarnished, and the fulfilment of its real purpose deflected, in this unnecessary and demeaning way when the whole sorry saga could have been resolved two years ago with a bit of openness.
Back in the 1970’s, before “internet trolling”, I remember many conversations where someone would say “leave it, you know he’s on a wind up”.
the guilty party would then smile as they’d been heartily enjoying themselves watching you get aerated over their frankly wild/illogical viewpoint. It was usually a joke, not always friendly.
I can’t but help have the opinion that the posts on the LAA forum by TCT are now a “wind-up”. There is no way she actually believes what she is saying, she’s pretending to be a fool for her own entertainment and everyone is falling for it.
How she must be smiling at all the indignation at her latest posts. If anyone here thinks she believes that the Stearman doesn’t have dual controls, for instance, then you are maybe a bigger fool than she is pretending to be.
the guilty party would then smile as they’d been heartily enjoying themselves watching you get aerated over their frankly wild/illogical viewpoint. It was usually a joke, not always friendly.
I can’t but help have the opinion that the posts on the LAA forum by TCT are now a “wind-up”. There is no way she actually believes what she is saying, she’s pretending to be a fool for her own entertainment and everyone is falling for it.
How she must be smiling at all the indignation at her latest posts. If anyone here thinks she believes that the Stearman doesn’t have dual controls, for instance, then you are maybe a bigger fool than she is pretending to be.
T C-T is now answering the key questions by telling us she is only going to answer them in her book and anyway, they have no bearing on the LAA award.
C-T has threatened to take various people to (civil) court. So good luck with that approach. As an aside, one of the people concerned seems to run a successful expedition management business and it appears to me, is having his legal patience stretched to breaking point...
Secondly, unless they were living in a shell, the good members of the award committee for the LAA must have been as convinced as the rest of us and the general public that she had flown the expedition solo. The alternative is that they knowingly gave an award to C-T for sitting in the back cockpit of an aeroplane equipped with modern navigation equipment, supported by a management crew and a 20,000 hour instructor sitting in the front.
C-T has threatened to take various people to (civil) court. So good luck with that approach. As an aside, one of the people concerned seems to run a successful expedition management business and it appears to me, is having his legal patience stretched to breaking point...
Secondly, unless they were living in a shell, the good members of the award committee for the LAA must have been as convinced as the rest of us and the general public that she had flown the expedition solo. The alternative is that they knowingly gave an award to C-T for sitting in the back cockpit of an aeroplane equipped with modern navigation equipment, supported by a management crew and a 20,000 hour instructor sitting in the front.
Jumping in. The awards committee have already publicly confirmed that they thought it was solo, and used the word 'deception' in the post about it.
And yes, patience wearing a little thin!
And yes, patience wearing a little thin!
and jumping in too (a tandem jump)
There is a lot of fuss made about the "Vile Internet trolls" Sam Rutherford, Jay Sata and Satcoswhippingboy (thanks Terry H).
We all came to this particular party rather late in the discussion.
The initial Pprune references to her ladyship came in as far back as 18th March 2015 (09:53 to be exact) in a thread on here titled The Lady Who Flew Africa.- started by joy ride.
The first enquiry about her not being alone came on the 19th March 2015 (10:31) with a comment about there being a chase plane - by vctenderness
not long followed by confirmation by Tony Mabelis that it was a C208 Caravan with her.
First indication of questions about solo or not were raised 30 March 2015 by Proof Reader
It was a further 10 weeks before Sam joined in to clarify the point on 15th Jun 2015
There follows many many more posts on the subject. All factual, no trolling at all.
As far as I can see Jay came into much later when he opened the TCT main thread 14 April 2016
At some point there was a thread merge with his new thread and one other (not this Lady who Flew Africa one though) and things start to get a little confusing.
It seems The Lady who Flew Africa one closed 13th October 2016 (19:57) by Saab Dastard.
For what it is worth I made my first post on this subject 22nd July 2016
Since these start dates I see no evidence of Trolling, certainly nothing Vile. Factual posts that have touched a nerve.
so with that cleared up. Stay focused.
Questions about these flights began way before we joined in. Is TCT worthy of any awards? Is she a good role model? Is she good at avoiding the questions?
Oh BTW whilst on the topic of questions:
I have asked questions in open forum
I have asked questions to her friends to pass on to her
I have asked questions using the links on her website.
I know for a fact I am not alone in doing so.
Answers received to date = ZERO
There is a lot of fuss made about the "Vile Internet trolls" Sam Rutherford, Jay Sata and Satcoswhippingboy (thanks Terry H).
We all came to this particular party rather late in the discussion.
The initial Pprune references to her ladyship came in as far back as 18th March 2015 (09:53 to be exact) in a thread on here titled The Lady Who Flew Africa.- started by joy ride.
The first enquiry about her not being alone came on the 19th March 2015 (10:31) with a comment about there being a chase plane - by vctenderness
not long followed by confirmation by Tony Mabelis that it was a C208 Caravan with her.
First indication of questions about solo or not were raised 30 March 2015 by Proof Reader
It was a further 10 weeks before Sam joined in to clarify the point on 15th Jun 2015
There follows many many more posts on the subject. All factual, no trolling at all.
As far as I can see Jay came into much later when he opened the TCT main thread 14 April 2016
At some point there was a thread merge with his new thread and one other (not this Lady who Flew Africa one though) and things start to get a little confusing.
It seems The Lady who Flew Africa one closed 13th October 2016 (19:57) by Saab Dastard.
For what it is worth I made my first post on this subject 22nd July 2016
Since these start dates I see no evidence of Trolling, certainly nothing Vile. Factual posts that have touched a nerve.
so with that cleared up. Stay focused.
Questions about these flights began way before we joined in. Is TCT worthy of any awards? Is she a good role model? Is she good at avoiding the questions?
Oh BTW whilst on the topic of questions:
I have asked questions in open forum
I have asked questions to her friends to pass on to her
I have asked questions using the links on her website.
I know for a fact I am not alone in doing so.
Answers received to date = ZERO
Thread Starter
Thanks for that timeline Satco.
100% accurate.
Sam was my first point of contact when I first anomalies in her solo claims.
Tracey has tried to describe me as a troll and suggested via her lawyers threatening letter I have some sort of personal agenda.
This of course I dismissed as a normal legal backoff strategy journalists get all the time.
Hence my change of ID on here to my real name.
My interest has been solely to expose the truth.
I am not a mouthpiece for Sam or indeed anyone else.
Boeing Aircraft issued two press release claiming Tracey was on a solo expedition and on the strength of those all the UK and foreign media printed and broadcast stories on the female pilot flying a biplane across Africa and later UK to Sydney alone or solo.
There was never any mention of a commercial pilot with 20,000 hours in his log book,an instructor rating who restored the Spirit of Artemis sitting up front in the tutor seat.
The departures and arrivals were staged and Ewald Gritsch disappeared and hid as per the famous picture in Sydney where Tracey blatantly accepted a solo flight award from the Australian Women Pilots Association. This was later replaced by a second certificate omitting the word solo.
There would never have been any publicity for Tracey had it not been for that four letter word:
100% accurate.
Sam was my first point of contact when I first anomalies in her solo claims.
Tracey has tried to describe me as a troll and suggested via her lawyers threatening letter I have some sort of personal agenda.
This of course I dismissed as a normal legal backoff strategy journalists get all the time.
Hence my change of ID on here to my real name.
My interest has been solely to expose the truth.
I am not a mouthpiece for Sam or indeed anyone else.
Boeing Aircraft issued two press release claiming Tracey was on a solo expedition and on the strength of those all the UK and foreign media printed and broadcast stories on the female pilot flying a biplane across Africa and later UK to Sydney alone or solo.
There was never any mention of a commercial pilot with 20,000 hours in his log book,an instructor rating who restored the Spirit of Artemis sitting up front in the tutor seat.
The departures and arrivals were staged and Ewald Gritsch disappeared and hid as per the famous picture in Sydney where Tracey blatantly accepted a solo flight award from the Australian Women Pilots Association. This was later replaced by a second certificate omitting the word solo.
There would never have been any publicity for Tracey had it not been for that four letter word:
SOLO
Last edited by Mike Flynn; 18th Oct 2018 at 05:49.
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I think anything written between now and Sunday will probably just be a rearrangement of things gone before.
TCT has proven that while she will, when pushed, respond she won't actually answer anything. Oh for a Dimbleby to nod and smile at her spin and say "That's all very well but what I asked you was.....". Sadly she will only do a '5 Live' where she can twist the facts, avoid the awkward requests for the truth and where there is nobody 'in the know' to contradict the nonsense.
Barring another amnesiac website designer with a eureka 'explanation' I think those on either side have made up their minds and will vote accordingly.
TCT has proven that while she will, when pushed, respond she won't actually answer anything. Oh for a Dimbleby to nod and smile at her spin and say "That's all very well but what I asked you was.....". Sadly she will only do a '5 Live' where she can twist the facts, avoid the awkward requests for the truth and where there is nobody 'in the know' to contradict the nonsense.
Barring another amnesiac website designer with a eureka 'explanation' I think those on either side have made up their minds and will vote accordingly.
You sure about that.......??!!!!! Not sure I would put too much money on that !!! I really hope I am wrong.
The LAA needs to extricate itself from this morass and move back to helping men and women build
and operate aircraft for their pleasure, education and enjoyment.
The LAA needs to extricate itself from this morass and move back to helping men and women build
and operate aircraft for their pleasure, education and enjoyment.
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You sure about that.......??!!!!! Not sure I would put too much money on that !!! I really hope I am wrong.
The LAA needs to extricate itself from this morass and move back to helping men and women build
and operate aircraft for their pleasure, education and enjoyment.
The LAA needs to extricate itself from this morass and move back to helping men and women build
and operate aircraft for their pleasure, education and enjoyment.
Whether that end is achieved by the current Committee coming to their senses, or a new Committee having to be voted in, remains to be seen. I'm sure that most members don't much care for this mud slinging, and simply want the LAA to help them fly. With that in mind, a new Committee might be what it takes to get the Association to focus on the fundamentals, rather than the raving type.
I don't see that the Committee (the Board), as a group, have done anything wrong here.
In fact, I don't see that any individual members of the Board or Committee have either. Some may have a different opinion to me, but that's fine - different opinions are surely acceptable?
As someone wishing the best for the LAA, I'd hate to think we are sending abuse in the direction of the volunteers who do so much for us, simply because we might disagree on one subject with a few of them.
(Bear in mind, not all of them - I don't think even a majority of them - have expressed a public opinion. As a Board, they have publicly followed their process, just as we should want them to do - there isn't anything to say to them as a group fr that other than "Thanks".)
In fact, I don't see that any individual members of the Board or Committee have either. Some may have a different opinion to me, but that's fine - different opinions are surely acceptable?
As someone wishing the best for the LAA, I'd hate to think we are sending abuse in the direction of the volunteers who do so much for us, simply because we might disagree on one subject with a few of them.
(Bear in mind, not all of them - I don't think even a majority of them - have expressed a public opinion. As a Board, they have publicly followed their process, just as we should want them to do - there isn't anything to say to them as a group fr that other than "Thanks".)
