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2018 Light Aircraft Association AGM award vote

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2018 Light Aircraft Association AGM award vote

Old 13th Oct 2018, 18:25
  #281 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Discorde View Post
Even if the BW Trophy were restored to TCT it would be virtually meaningless. She has lost the respect of most of the aviation community and looks unlikely to regain it. Most pilots would be devastated if they lost the respect of their colleagues.
Sorry, I have to post a quick response.

If this trophy is restored to TCT then it means that it is meaningless to any future recipient, and will be forever tainted. They will ask themselves "Did I win this on merit or because I am judged to be as underhand as a previous <winner>"
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Old 13th Oct 2018, 18:50
  #282 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SATCOS WHIPPING BOY View Post
Sorry, I have to post a quick response.

If this trophy is restored to TCT then it means that it is meaningless to any future recipient, and will be forever tainted. They will ask themselves "Did I win this on merit or because I am judged to be as underhand as a previous <winner>"
Not necessarily SWB. After this furore any future recipients would know that they had genuinely won the Trophy on merit - and - just as importantly - that they were respected by the pilot community.

Last edited by Discorde; 13th Oct 2018 at 19:07. Reason: minor amendment
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Old 13th Oct 2018, 19:24
  #283 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SATCOS WHIPPING BOY View Post
If this trophy is restored to TCT then it means that it is meaningless "
Hey Satco ,

You are slightly off the mark here mate ..[not like you]
The Bill Woodhams trophy will always be the Bill Woodhams trophy . It was around long before TC-T was and has been awarded to many other more worthy recipients . I have spent most of my working life working on B.747's , as well as building my own aeroplane . Am I worthy of the BW award ? No bloody way !

But had I achieved anything like that amazing chap , Colin Hales , then I reckon I would be proud to have that award on my mantelpiece .
Another point is this ; People have to remember that she is not re-receiving that award , but merely having it "re-recognised". How pointless is that !

But you are absolutely correct in one way SWB . If the vote goes her way on Oct21st , it will be totally meaningless .
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Old 13th Oct 2018, 19:31
  #284 (permalink)  
 
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It is perhaps worth remembering the Bill Woodhams Trophy was donated to the PFA in 1977 by the family of the late Bill Woodhams.
He had died whilst flight testing Pilot/Practavia Sprite G-BDDB in Yorkshire.
Bill had been Director of Operations at those wonder PFA rallies held at Sywell in the 70s.
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Old 13th Oct 2018, 19:41
  #285 (permalink)  
 
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Fair comment Chris. Maybe I should have said that it will be tainted. Not a reflection on the award or why it exists but any search of the award will always have the associated link to TCT.

The question remains Is someone who lied to achieve their aims, and continues to lie today, worthy of any reward/award/accolade?

Last edited by SATCOS WHIPPING BOY; 13th Oct 2018 at 20:21. Reason: edited because my reply a personal one and this is not about personal issues.
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Old 13th Oct 2018, 20:21
  #286 (permalink)  
 
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I think it's simpler (and potentially more positive):

1. She remains a recipient, uncool.
2. She remains a non-recipient (or rescindee), the award remains a demonstrably valuable and pride-worthy achievement, not vulnerable to commercial/political interest groups.

The voters will decide.
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 03:46
  #287 (permalink)  
 
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The latest response on the LAA Forum, with a couple of interesting points made by Miss Curtis-Taylor:

by Tracey Curtis-Taylor » Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:16 pm

Regarding some recent postings, please note:

1. I have not threatened the LAA with any kind of litigation, nor has anyone done so on my behalf. The Chairman is incorrect to assert this in his statement. I have already stated my willingness for all correspondence from my solicitor and myself to be published to make that point.
2. Repeated assertions that I possess a legal team and a PR machine do not make them true.
3. I am in my 14th year of membership of the LAA and can only plead guilty to the serious charge of saying on the radio that I've been a member for 15 years.
4. I also said on the radio that I wasn't given the opportunity to respond to the 2016 motion to strip me of the Woodhams Award because that was true. It is rare, if not unique, for an attack on a named member to be presented at a LAA AGM. The proposer and seconder evidently didn't think courtesy required them to tell me; nor did the Chairman of the Board. I knew nothing of the motion nor of the recruitment of votes for it through social networking until I was warned from outside, as explained in my 2018 statement. A few days before the 2016 AGM three statements were provided from myself, Ewald Gritsch and Barry Latter, who was a docent from the Seattle Museum of Flight. In his statement, Mr Latter explained the caption on the slide - which has been used repeatedly by the anonymous trolls on PPRuNe as evidence of my seeming fraud - as relating to Mary Heath's flight in 1928. He states that I 'never once claimed to have accomplished the flights, either African or transcontinental to Australia, as a totally solo pilot'. He further adds 'In fact, she was emphatic in praising the contributions of her support team, including the times members of that team flew with her'. None of these statements were circulated to the members. I obtained permission to speak on my own behalf at the AGM, but before the meeting the Chairman tried to prevent me doing so by revealing that the motion had already been carried by proxy votes. I was therefore only able to say anything after the issue had already been stitched up. That is where the failure of due process occurred.
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 06:37
  #288 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by heli View Post
The latest response on the LAA Forum, with a couple of interesting points made by Miss Curtis-Taylor:

This 'explanation' of 'the slide' is so full of holes, it's laughable. The dates, route and duration are completely different from Lady Mary Heath's but identical to C-T's. If that wasn't enough, on her website and Facebook page at the time and for many months afterwards, C-T herself claims she flew solo. It's all written down and still there on waybackmachine.com which can never be erased. On top of this, we have the video which she has acknowledged but still uses weasel words to try and get round. Instead of admitting she said she flew solo, she blames the weather at Herne Bay (!) for not thanking her support team.
I am also sick and tired of her constantly mentioning the word 'troll' in the same breath as PPRuNe. I have done a first solo, first solo cross country, first solo IMC, first solo multi etc. I paid for those experiences myself, I wasn't sponsored, Prince Michael wasn't interested and neither was the media but to me, they were a few of the true achievements of my life and I am quietly proud of them. To be feted and accept awards or admiration for something you haven't done is simply contemptible. To then try to deny and cast blame on others is behaviour of the lowest order. It deserves to be called out.
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 06:44
  #289 (permalink)  
 
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T C--T on the LAA forum:

It is evident from recent study of the redacted proxy voting forms- supplied at my request-.......

Is everyone allowed to study voting forms after the event?

Who allowed this to happen?

Why would anyone want to do so?

Is this a sign of paranoia? Desperation? Or both?

Or is this evidence of her extraordinary belief that she's been a victim of a very serious fraud perpetuated by the Committee of the LAA - that same organisation that she has publicly slagged off as being a 'group of misogynistic old men'?

As nothing further has been heard of any mis-deeds unearthed, this personal "study" of the voting forms must have confirmed to the deluded 'Bird' that the majority of voters voted against her - tough as that reality must be for such a fragile ego.
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 07:47
  #290 (permalink)  
 
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I think I see how this is going to play out, now...
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 08:39
  #291 (permalink)  
 
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I 'never once claimed to have accomplished the flights, either African or transcontinental to Australia, as a totally solo pilot'.
Inclusion of the word "totally" suggests that TCT (and/or some of her team) still consider "solo" to be a variable condition rather than absolute.

Weasel words indeed.
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 08:39
  #292 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RomeoTangoFoxtrotMike View Post
I think I see how this is going to play out, now...
Don't we all RTFM. T-C-T gets the award re-instated, sues for lost earnings for BiaB and herself since 2016, the LAA has to stump up for that plus her costs. She gets the award re-instated, sues the LAA, loses, goes bankrupt to avoid paying costs and the LAA still gets a humungous bill for legal advice/representation. Heads she wins, tails we lose.

1. I have not threatened the LAA with any kind of litigation, nor has anyone done so on my behalf. The Chairman is incorrect to assert this in his statement. I have already stated my willingness for all correspondence from my solicitor and myself to be published to make that point.
If there has been no threat of litigation why should such correspondence exist?
If there has been no threat of litigation why is there a long letter from Matrix Chambers published on the LAA thread?

Off to polish my blazer buttons and brogues ready for Sunday.

SND
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 08:46
  #293 (permalink)  
 
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That letter from Matrix Chambers is not to the LAA - it is to 'Jay Sata' and is an accusation of harassment. Which was fair enough, tbh.
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 09:09
  #294 (permalink)  
 
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Mr Latter explained the caption on the slide - which has been used repeatedly by the anonymous trolls on PPRuNe
As one of those who has repeatedly asked Ms Curtis-Taylor for an explanation of that slide, I’d like to make a couple of points.

1. I am not an “anonymous troll”. She knows perfectly well who I am (mine is scarcely the most cryptic user name here!) because a senior and well respected member of the GA community has personally given her the Three Questions on my behalf. I also offered, through him well over a year ago, to speak personally to her in a constructive effort to try to help bring some balance and a fair conclusion to the debate. I heard nothing back.

2. Ms Curtis-Taylor has had well over a year in which to answer those simple questions. Instead of a straightforward and open response, what have we seen?

In answer to the Hearne Bay video, after well over a year of silence, apparently, it was a slip of the tongue. But not one worthy of immediate correction, nor even correction as soon as it was questioned here, despite the storm of criticism it caused.

We also now have an “answer” to the question regarding the presentation slide. Clare Prop has already critiqued it, so I will not do so again; but as explanations go, it does seem a bit thin to say the least!

Incidentally: were there any other slides shown at that presentation? Perhaps pointing out the differences between her journey and that of MH; perhaps detailing the complexity and difficulty involved in her planning and support operations? If so, perhaps they support her response?

As to the question of how she earned her RAF wings, there is still no answer. I find that strange as, if I had earned the honour of wearing them, I would be happy to tell anyone how I had done so if asked.

All that said: one point that Ms Curtis-Taylor makes is a good one.

Given that the proxy votes in 2016 had obviously been cast before the meeting, she clearly could not influence them with any argument she made at the meeting and, equally obviously, it is likely that the same situation will apply this time.

That is why I find it strange that Ms Curtis-Taylor has not taken the time to engage with the community by addressing these questions properly ahead of the meeting while there is still time to convince proxy voters to support her.

Unless, of course, she has no confidence in her ability to do so convincingly based on the facts.

If it had been me, and if I had good answers, I would have given those answers, explained openly what had happened and let the members decide if what I had done deserved an award.

Perhaps she has been badly advised, but I suggest that the way in which she has refused properly to address the criticisms levelled at her could scarcely have been better designed to ensure that she should lose the award.

I think she might well have obtained a better result by facing up to the criticisms. I wish she had done that because the way this has gone is bad for her reputation, that of the LAA and does nothing to advance the cause of GA either.

And that is sad!
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 09:28
  #295 (permalink)  
 
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It cannot be any clearer that this is not referring to Lady Mary Heath.

However, I apologize to Tracey for MY misunderstanding and not realising it was as she describes in her LAA post.



Given that the proxy votes in 2016 had obviously been cast before the meeting, she clearly could not influence them with any argument she made at the meeting and, equally obviously, it is likely that the same situation will apply this time.
Not strictly true mate, there is a subtle difference between a PROXY vote and a POSTAL vote. The POSTAL vote is decided by the voter and is made at a time when all of the arguments may not have been heard, a PROXY vote on the other hand is a way for the non-attending voter to request that someone casts a vote on their behalf after the discussions have been heard. In most cases the PROXY vote is delegated to the Chairman to decide but it can be given to ANY member to act on ones behalf. In a nutshell PROXY votes are not cast before the meeting.

Last edited by SATCOS WHIPPING BOY; 15th Oct 2018 at 09:46. Reason: to reply to Jonzarno.
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 09:47
  #296 (permalink)  
 
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Wink

Originally Posted by Sir Niall Dementia View Post
Off to polish my blazer buttons and brogues ready for Sunday.

SND
Mrs M9 and I (both LAA members) will be there. Wonder if it would be against the dress code to wear "Troll" suits?
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 09:54
  #297 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pilotmike View Post
T C--T on the LAA forum:

It is evident from recent study of the redacted proxy voting forms- supplied at my request-.......

Is everyone allowed to study voting forms after the event?

Who allowed this to happen?

Why would anyone want to do so?

Is this a sign of paranoia? Desperation? Or both?

Or is this evidence of her extraordinary belief that she's been a victim of a very serious fraud perpetuated by the Committee of the LAA - that same organisation that she has publicly slagged off as being a 'group of misogynistic old men'?

As nothing further has been heard of any mis-deeds unearthed, this personal "study" of the voting forms must have confirmed to the deluded 'Bird' that the majority of voters voted against her - tough as that reality must be for such a fragile ego.
I fairly sure from the responses given by the 'group of misogynistic old men' on numerous websites that proxy votes will be extremely high at this years AGM, unfortunately it may produce a result she really doesn't want to hear.






edit spelling.

Last edited by Above The Clouds; 15th Oct 2018 at 16:08.
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 09:55
  #298 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mariner9 View Post
Mrs M9 and I (both LAA members) will be there. Wonder if it would be against the dress code to wear "Troll" suits?
I suggest you wera a jacket and tie.

may I suggest one of these as it is what Ewald now wears just to remind TCT that he really ought not to be in the cockpit or seen in the cockpit. ;-)
A little light humour as this is all getting me down now.
https://www.ties.com/v/a/the-america...SABEgIJ7fD_BwE
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 10:21
  #299 (permalink)  
 
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Not strictly true mate, there is a subtle difference between a PROXY vote and a POSTAL vote. The POSTAL vote is decided by the voter and is made at a time when all of the arguments may not have been heard, a PROXY vote on the other hand is a way for the non-attending voter to request that someone casts a vote on their behalf after the discussions have been heard.
Thanks for pointing that out, it’s a bad choice of words on my part: I used “proxy” rather than “postal”.

I stand to be corrected, but was it actually discretionary PROXY votes that brought her down or confirmed POSTAL votes? Despite my mistaken choice of word I thought it was the latter.
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 10:28
  #300 (permalink)  
 
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From the LAA forum...

by Tracey Curtis-Taylor » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:21 am
It is important to note that Brian Davies has stepped down as Chairman of the LAA.
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