QNH or QFE ?
Not according to CAP413:
section 39 "All messages relating to an aircraft’s climb or descent to a HEIGHT or ALTITUDE employ the word ‘to’ followed immediately by the word HEIGHT or ALTITUDE. Furthermore, the initial message in any such RTF exchange will also include the appropriate QFE or QNH" which gives the example "G-CD, descend to height 1000 feet QFE 997 hectopascals".
or section 4.43, 4.44, 4,64, 4.84 and many others too.
India Four Two: are you sure the lower setting was 997 mb.
After allowing for the fact that I misread the sub scale (!), 992.6 is still not right.
I went back to the hangar today and paid more attention during winding back. I was seeing about 30' per mb - HPa - sorry chevvron! - which is what I expected and then I noticed this at 1800':
The sub scale ends at 945 HPa, but you can still wind back onto the sub scale for a second time around!
As I sit here in lockdown and under curfew, and wonder whether life will ever be the same again, this thread surfaces again to reassure me that some things never change.
I still shake my head in wonderment and try to figure out why Brits always want to make things so complicated, when it can all be so simple.
I still shake my head in wonderment and try to figure out why Brits always want to make things so complicated, when it can all be so simple.
Anyone who finds QFE complicated shouldn't be allowed to fly an aircraft. It's an option that is available to me, when appropriate I will use it. The fact that you don't want to, can't or find it too "complicated" is irrelevant to me. Nor do I feel the need to go onto the internet & demand that everyone should be just like me & do everything the way that I do it because I think that I'm so perfect.
When I tug gliders, I write down the release height for charging purposes. Leaving the altimeter on QFE makes that simpler & since I'm taking off & landing multiple times at the same airfield there's no need to change altimeter settings. Ditto today when I will be instructing in gliders. Since we won't be going anywhere we will leave the altimeter on QFE, although I will be showing students how to set QNH on an electronic display just to show how to use the instrument.
When I tug gliders, I write down the release height for charging purposes. Leaving the altimeter on QFE makes that simpler & since I'm taking off & landing multiple times at the same airfield there's no need to change altimeter settings. Ditto today when I will be instructing in gliders. Since we won't be going anywhere we will leave the altimeter on QFE, although I will be showing students how to set QNH on an electronic display just to show how to use the instrument.
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I don't find QFE complicated. Actually I've never used it because (a) it's not necessary and (b) it's not available in any of the jurisdictions where I have flown, but I'm sure I could deal with it satisfactorily if I had to.
But why have two systems operating when you only need one? The rest of the world has already figured out that there are some safety considerations here, and that's why they use QNH exclusively below the transition altitude.
And by the way, if you can't fly a circuit on QNH you shouldn't have a licence. I learnt to fly at an airport where the circuit altitude was 2900 feet (airport elevation 1888 feet).
But why have two systems operating when you only need one? The rest of the world has already figured out that there are some safety considerations here, and that's why they use QNH exclusively below the transition altitude.
And by the way, if you can't fly a circuit on QNH you shouldn't have a licence. I learnt to fly at an airport where the circuit altitude was 2900 feet (airport elevation 1888 feet).
Last edited by On Track; 7th Aug 2020 at 07:10. Reason: Spelling correction
This isn't about whether people should use one or the other, it's about the utter boring-ness of people telling other people how they should fly, the obsession with uniformity & conformity by people who cannot conceive that someone else should do something differently.
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You've gone off track there. I understand that in China and most of the former USSR, QFE is widespread. If they ever standardise on QNH at their international airports (which would be a good thing imo) they will be a long way behind the UK.
I was trained to use QFE in the navy. It made perfect sense, particularly to single pilot IF recoveries. It did not complicate things, it simplified them. That was the point. There are plenty of different practices around the world, much of it totally arbitary. QFE is not arbitary, it does not exist simply because 'brits like to complicate things' or 'that's the way we've always done it'. It is a rational option in the specific circumstances where simply knowing your height above the touchdown zone has value in itself. Nobody is advocating using QFE in the cruise instead of QNH. I find it strange that so many people object to the use of QFE. Live and let live.
The rest of the world has already figured out that there are some safety considerations here, and that's why they use QNH exclusively below the transition altitude.
I was trained to use QFE in the navy. It made perfect sense, particularly to single pilot IF recoveries. It did not complicate things, it simplified them. That was the point. There are plenty of different practices around the world, much of it totally arbitary. QFE is not arbitary, it does not exist simply because 'brits like to complicate things' or 'that's the way we've always done it'. It is a rational option in the specific circumstances where simply knowing your height above the touchdown zone has value in itself. Nobody is advocating using QFE in the cruise instead of QNH. I find it strange that so many people object to the use of QFE. Live and let live.
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As a glider pilot I was taught to fly my circuit without reference to the altimeter. It's an essential skill so as to make a safe landing in field higher or lower than the 'home' field
Prop swinger, it's not a question of choice. The law requires me and everyone else to fly on QNH below the transition altitude (which is 10,000 feet across the whole country). The safety benefits for aircraft separation, when everyone is using a common datum in both controlled and uncontrolled airspace, should be obvious.
Prop swinger, it's not a question of choice. The law requires me and everyone else to fly on QNH below the transition altitude (which is 10,000 feet across the whole country). The safety benefits for aircraft separation, when everyone is using a common datum in both controlled and uncontrolled airspace, should be obvious.
Some of us use QFE and some use QNH, we are adults and we use what is most appropriate for the situation we find ourselves in. I do get rather annoyed at people who try to make me do things their way because they think they are right. You do it your way and stop trying to make me fly in an unsafe way, cos I won't listen to you !
Prop swinger, it's not a question of choice. The law requires me and everyone else to fly on QNH below the transition altitude (which is 10,000 feet across the whole country). The safety benefits for aircraft separation, when everyone is using a common datum in both controlled and uncontrolled airspace, should be obvious.
Standardised altimeter settings only makes sense when combined with the semi-circular for cruising flight. When I'm using QFE I won't be in level flight so cruising levels & the associated common datum don't apply.
UK aviation, history unimpeded by progress......
i once bought a glider that had an altimeter calibrated in mm of mercury. Good luck getting that one from ATC. I flew with it for years, being too mean to change it. i made a little conversion chart that I don't think i ever used. Just left it on 789. I didn't have a radio, anyway '
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My favourite aviation joke..
'London, 'Merican 99'
'American Niner Niner, London, descend to altitude six tousand feet, QNH Wun Zero Zero Tree'
'Merican 99, can we have that in inches?'
Certainly, American Niner Niner, descend to altitude seven two tousand inches, QNH Wun Zero Zero Tree'
Hat, coat.
TOO
'London, 'Merican 99'
'American Niner Niner, London, descend to altitude six tousand feet, QNH Wun Zero Zero Tree'
'Merican 99, can we have that in inches?'
Certainly, American Niner Niner, descend to altitude seven two tousand inches, QNH Wun Zero Zero Tree'
Hat, coat.
TOO
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