8.33 Changes Help

[alex90]

Hello PPruners,

So last week, I was planning a flight from London to Leeds, and being one of those pilots who over-prepares rather than just go, I decided it was a good idea to have the frequencies of aerodromes en-route to hand. Just in case I needed to stop, or as it was supposed to be a nice sunny day, I expected high levels of traffic so thought it a good idea to listen in at busy aerodromes en-route, to add to my mental picture. I normally use a real chart, and then supplement it with Skydemon and Pooleys for notams / latest info etc... Although I expected my brand new 1:500k chart to already be out of date, I was quite surprised that Skydemon and Pooleys subscription had not yet updated its records to 8.33kHz channels, a few aerodromes that I know had changed to 8.33kHz were still listed as 25kHz.

I initially went on all the aerodrome's websites to look at their instructions, but it was very demanding, and time consuming to go to all these airfield's websites, especially if I didn't actively want to land there. I then found the AIP on NATS but it does say that it is only updated periodically, but they offer a CSV file (like Excel) with it updated weekly. I had already noticed a couple of missing aerodromes from the list... I thought that this was a really backwards way of us pilots finding out what frequency and when they were changing.

SO - I developed a very quick website with a simple search function, and you can see all the information from the AIP's CSV / additional information I have been given by other airfields not (yet?) listed. There is no advertising, and I don't want anything in return for it, but if you do see any inaccuracies, I would really appreciate it if people could let me know, so that I can update it. (I am relying on the UK CAA's CSV system to be up to date which I am not sure is at all reliable).

https://www.newfrequency.co.uk/

I hope this helps!
Alex90

[Piper.Classique]

Thank you

I think that will be very helpful.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Thanks Alex, whilst it's good to see that the new 1;500,000 CAA South and North charts include the new frequencies, that seems to be basically the only source - as AIP, Pooleys, SD, etc. all seem to be well behind the drag curve.

That is very useful, and appreciated.

Can I suggest making a similar post on the Flyer Forums.

G

[eckhard]

Thanks Alex!

I will definitely use this as a warning to check the NOTAMs.

Great work.

[mikehallam]

My thanks too,

It's great device and I've book marked it as a 'favourite' so it can be readily used in pre-planning flights for the coming season.

mike hallam

[BoeingBoy]

Hi Alex90,

Thank you for a very useful resource. The Hawarden EGNR approach frequency converted on April 26th and is now operational.

[2hotwot]

Very useful thanks. I will be using this.
but... 8.33 identifier is a channel number not a frequency.
It seems to be a common confusion.

[CharlieJuliet]

Very good assist; travelled to Lincs yesterday and found that Humberside App was incorrect in Skydemon, but was correct in the monthly updates available online for download.

[chevvron]

Check NOTAMs; Oxford's 'new' 8.33 frequency (127.110) is going to have to be changed as it's causing interference on London Control frequency 127.100. wef 2 May it will temporarirly change to 125.090.

[CrazyScientist]

If I've understood correctly, aren't all frequency changes (when they go live) simply promulgated on the NOTAM system until the AIP entries are updated?

[ChickenHouse]

THANKS Alex!!! The 833 change is such a mess! Some information is in NOTAM, some in AIP and AIRAC, some fields decided on their own and not all publish their decision on when they switch exactly, some listen on old frequency and new channel, some use their old equipment on the old frequency and obscure the neighbors channel ... all sort of nasty stuff going on.

[chevvron]

Originally Posted by ChickenHouse

THANKS Alex!!! The 833 change is such a mess! Some information is in NOTAM, some in AIP and AIRAC, some fields decided on their own and not all publish their decision on when they switch exactly, some listen on old frequency and new channel, some use their old equipment on the old frequency and obscure the neighbors channel ... all sort of nasty stuff going on.

Many airfields are simply waiting for their radio license renewal date and changing then.

[alex90]

Thank you everyone - glad that this is proving to be useful, and that it is appreciated.

BoeingBoy - thank you - I've updated the change date / status

Chevvron - I have read the NOTAM for Oxford, and I am still non-the-wiser... The NOTAM that I am reading has different dates to yours, conflicting information from the CAA pdf, and latest AIP on NATS and your statement, so I am a little in the dark! I have sent an email to OPS and they have already provided a definitive answer (which I will publish in the next couple of hours) in as clear and in-ambiguous form as I can.

2hotwot - Thank you very much for this, I'd like to apologise for the inaccuracy! I guess most people, like me are coming from the "put in this frequency" and don't really understand the difference between 25Khz and 8.33Khz apart from the fact that it relates to the channel spacing and enables more "things to put in the comms box" (which most call frequencies) to be available. I do appreciate your statement - and sorry about it - I will try to get it right in future!

CrazyScientist - well I have done some research and it looks like we are all in a state of confusion about some airfields, even the UK CAA's published CSV, their PDF, NATS' PDF, AIP and NOTAMS all seem to have conflicting information, let alone some of the airfield's websites too! Which is a bit of a pain to deal with. My aim is to update this weekly (or more), and if I have such an amazing community as we have here, and if people spot any mistakes or missing items - please do let me know - and I will update it!

GTE - I don't have a flyers account, and don't really want another forum to keep a track of - but please feel free to re-post it there if you like / can. This is aimed at all of us pilots, and as I said - I don't want anything in return, just trying to make it slightly easier for us all to fly / plan!

Thanks again to everyone for all your help and nice messages - please feel free to PM me any changes that I have missed, or post it here - I will try to keep a track of this post!

Best Wishes,
Alex90

[satdja]

A good resource, two suggestions:

8.33 is not a frequency, it's a channel. Suggest changing column "8.33Khz (new) frequency to "8.33kHz Channel". Also "Khz" should be "kHz"

Ensure that all 8.33 Channels are to three digits so "119.13" should be "119.130", you need to type the full 119.130 to get the radio to recognise the channel I believe.

regards

[Aerials]

Thank you very much for a really splendid effort there Alex. I hope you don't mind but I've posted a link to your website elsewhere and I'm certain it'll be appreciated as much as it is here.

[alex90]

Aerials - Glad this has helped! Please feel free to share to all, and please get them to contribute too if I have missed any changes - I would be more than happy to keep updating it weekly!

Satdja - as mentioned by 2hotwot, you are entirely correct about these being channels and not frequencies. I have amended these to be full 3 decimal places, although I presume that most controllers will continue to only mention the relevant digits where possible. kHz has also been changed - thank you. I do understand that small inaccuracies such as these can be annoying to people who know in depth details with regards to the inner workings, so I hope that this has helped. I also registered frequencychange.co.uk - which will (once DNS propagation has completed) also pointing to the same website - as again you are right - these are not new frequencies, but new channels.

Thanks again,
Alex90

[chevvron]

Originally Posted by satdja

Ensure that all 8.33 Channels are to three digits so "119.13" should be "119.130", you need to type the full 119.130 to get the radio to recognise the channel I believe.

regards

You are somewhat behind the times. The CAA in the UK legislated this about 10 years ago and it is an ICAO requirement that even if a country only has one 8.33 kHz channel in use, then anything other than 4 digit channels must be referred to using 6 digits.
I had a seat on the UK Phraseology Working Group at the time and the annoying thing was, we had only just got the military ATC system to abbreviate 25 kHz channels by leaving off the '5' at the end, then it all changed again!

[The Fat Controller]

Just be aware that the word "channel" is not used on the air, they are all referred to as frequencies.

From the latest CAP413

https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalap...detail&id=6973

All six figures shall be used when identifying frequencies irrespective of
whether they are 25 kHz or 8.33 kHz spaced. Exceptionally, when the
final two digits of the frequency are both zero, only the first four digits
need be given. In technical terms an 8.33 kHz frequency is referred to
as a “channel”, however the word “channel” is not used in RTF.

[scifi]

I can't get the link in the first post to work. It just says ' Hang on, we are still boarding'...
.

[ShyTorque]

Originally Posted by chevvron

Check NOTAMs; Oxford's 'new' 8.33 frequency (127.110) is going to have to be changed as it's causing interference on London Control frequency 127.100. wef 2 May it will temporarirly change to 125.090.

The very same problem that 8.33 was supposed to prevent!!