Effect of Brexit on UK certificates etc.
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Disputes about the application of EASA rules are (or would be, if there ever were any) decided by which court? And refusing to be bound by which court is one of our red lines? QED.
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Gertrude: Life existed before EASA. I recall my licence had JAR-FCL written on it. I didn't see any change when it was switched to EASA when it was renewed at the 5 year point. So what changes can I expect if it was returned to a JAR FCL licence, after all, these are internationally recognised standards.....
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Sure, and we can return to those days easily enough, given enough money and time, and it's the latter that's the problem (money isn't a problem, because the costs can be recovered from the pilots). How is the CAA getting on with the necessary recruiting and training? About as well as the customs people are with the planning permission for the Kent lorry parks?
The only #brexit practicality that the government appears to be anywhere near ready for (subject to only the piss-take court case, which the government should win) is the BLUE PASSPORTS. But as that's obviously the most importing thing it has to sort out, it was quite right to do that first.
The only #brexit practicality that the government appears to be anywhere near ready for (subject to only the piss-take court case, which the government should win) is the BLUE PASSPORTS. But as that's obviously the most importing thing it has to sort out, it was quite right to do that first.
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Gertrude: Life existed before EASA. I recall my licence had JAR-FCL written on it. I didn't see any change when it was switched to EASA when it was renewed at the 5 year point. So what changes can I expect if it was returned to a JAR FCL licence, after all, these are internationally recognised standards.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_...on_Authorities
If the UK wants to "go back" to something, it would need to be the pre-JAR-FCL days. That's the 1980s.
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My "member or the EU" red passport is due to be renewed in 2020. So am I going to be banned from travel after March because my passport isn't Blue with "Free United Kingdom" on the front?? I don't think so.
I look at this document as telling UK to get ready for the change. If Andrew Haines is TOO STUPID to make any plan other than say the CAA will remain part of EASA, then he better move the Belgrano and it's staff to Belgium and try to regulate us from there because the UK will be out.
(I didn't vote for it!!)
I look at this document as telling UK to get ready for the change. If Andrew Haines is TOO STUPID to make any plan other than say the CAA will remain part of EASA, then he better move the Belgrano and it's staff to Belgium and try to regulate us from there because the UK will be out.
(I didn't vote for it!!)
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What will change is that you will no longer have the RIGHT to travel to 27 countries. You can probably still go there, depending on what you want to do, but it will be with the PERMISSION and at the WHIM of a bunch of foreigners, instead of as of RIGHT. This, apparently, is what's called "taking back control".
Excellent ! So it is back to how it was before the EU first drew breath ! And visiting the rest of the world, how will that work ?
I think that I can guess that it will be the same as it was before.
I think that I can guess that it will be the same as it was before.
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What will change is that you will no longer have the RIGHT to travel to 27 countries. You can probably still go there, depending on what you want to do, but it will be with the PERMISSION and at the WHIM of a bunch of foreigners, instead of as of RIGHT. This, apparently, is what's called "taking back control".
It is unlikely that, if I can get to France in a light aircraft in April 2019, I will be arrested for flying on a UK issued EASA licence issued when the UK was part of the EU and EASA.
Clearly aviation will change as we won't be in the EU. If nothing is agreed, it will be a large change and the EU are pointing that out but if CAA don't respond to this EU statement soon then the whole organisation will be seriously unfit for purpose come next April. They can't have their heads in the sand expecting nothing will change because we will still be in EASA because we might not.
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Clearly aviation will change as we won't be in the EU. If nothing is agreed, it will be a large change and the EU are pointing that out but if CAA don't respond to this EU statement soon then the whole organisation will be seriously unfit for purpose come next April. They can't have their heads in the sand expecting nothing will change because we will still be in EASA because we might not.
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Ignoring the overtly political garbage on both sides of the argument which is derailing the thread off-track, nobody really knows what's going on, and that includes the regulator.
I am not losing any sleep over it. We will still ahve licenses and approved aircraft to fly. I couldn't care less about the process used as that'll be for the politicians and mandarins to sort out.
I am not losing any sleep over it. We will still ahve licenses and approved aircraft to fly. I couldn't care less about the process used as that'll be for the politicians and mandarins to sort out.
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The problem is the UK wanting out of the Euopean court of justice in all areas, unfortunately all member EASA member states have the ECJ as the ultimate authority over the EASA activities.
It is difficult to see how the UK can be in EASA and not under the ECJ for aviation matters.
The question is does the UK stay under the ECJ for aviation or get out from under the EU completely ? If so would it not be better to throw in our lot with the FAA and join the worlds biggest aviation system ?
It is difficult to see how the UK can be in EASA and not under the ECJ for aviation matters.
The question is does the UK stay under the ECJ for aviation or get out from under the EU completely ? If so would it not be better to throw in our lot with the FAA and join the worlds biggest aviation system ?
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If so would it not be better to throw in our lot with the FAA and join the worlds biggest aviation system ?
TOO
22/04
May I trouble you for a reference to Mr Rees-Mogg's plan, following departure from EASA, to keep Airbus Broughton wing manufacture rolling, Rolls Royce Derby churning out Trents etc and a myriad supporting, sub-contracting manufacturers in business?
Similarly, I've probably missed his commentary on the EU Notice to Stakeholders. Withdrawal of the United Kingdom and EU Aviation Safety Rules, previously referred to and in particular his plan to counter the devastating effects of: and thus keep flight crews, engineers, air traffic personnel, cabin crew, training departments etc, etc in business, earning to support families and providing significant contribution to the UK tax base. You see, whenever I look, I can't find any details of putative plans for a Rees-Mogg handling of this upcoming catastrophe.
May I trouble you for a reference to Mr Rees-Mogg's plan, following departure from EASA, to keep Airbus Broughton wing manufacture rolling, Rolls Royce Derby churning out Trents etc and a myriad supporting, sub-contracting manufacturers in business?
Similarly, I've probably missed his commentary on the EU Notice to Stakeholders. Withdrawal of the United Kingdom and EU Aviation Safety Rules, previously referred to and in particular his plan to counter the devastating effects of: and thus keep flight crews, engineers, air traffic personnel, cabin crew, training departments etc, etc in business, earning to support families and providing significant contribution to the UK tax base. You see, whenever I look, I can't find any details of putative plans for a Rees-Mogg handling of this upcoming catastrophe.
Would he dare to stand up and say deregulate aviation?
Actually I doubt he has an opinion.
A Google search for Jacob Rees-Mogg EASA produces results with the easa crossed out, and a search for his name with the word aviation has odd results. The second has him talking about cutting stamp duty, while the seventh says he has never been to IKEA and doesn't intend to start, and in the eighth he wants to reduce NHS spending.
Don't forget that we didn't have much aviation in the 18th century, which is where the third result says he is from.
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22/04
May I trouble you for a reference to Mr Rees-Mogg's plan, following departure from EASA, to keep Airbus Broughton wing manufacture rolling, Rolls Royce Derby churning out Trents etc and a myriad supporting, sub-contracting manufacturers in business?
Similarly, I've probably missed his commentary on the EU Notice to Stakeholders. Withdrawal of the United Kingdom and EU Aviation Safety Rules, previously referred to and in particular his plan to counter the devastating effects of: and thus keep flight crews, engineers, air traffic personnel, cabin crew, training departments etc, etc in business, earning to support families and providing significant contribution to the UK tax base. You see, whenever I look, I can't find any details of putative plans for a Rees-Mogg handling of this upcoming catastrophe.
May I trouble you for a reference to Mr Rees-Mogg's plan, following departure from EASA, to keep Airbus Broughton wing manufacture rolling, Rolls Royce Derby churning out Trents etc and a myriad supporting, sub-contracting manufacturers in business?
Similarly, I've probably missed his commentary on the EU Notice to Stakeholders. Withdrawal of the United Kingdom and EU Aviation Safety Rules, previously referred to and in particular his plan to counter the devastating effects of: and thus keep flight crews, engineers, air traffic personnel, cabin crew, training departments etc, etc in business, earning to support families and providing significant contribution to the UK tax base. You see, whenever I look, I can't find any details of putative plans for a Rees-Mogg handling of this upcoming catastrophe.
Getting back to reality, I'm surprised that wing production is still ongoing in UK at all since the British government has no shares in EADS and, irrespective of our position within the EU, it wouldn't surprise me that Airbus would - sooner rather than later - transfer the jobs to a lower wage economy. Perhaps because Britain would then have no incentive to purchase the A400M?
Going further with Rolls-Royce - yes, tariffs on engines could be damaging to them, especially as Sefran would be exempt from such tariffs but what percentage of their overall business are we talking about here? Customers can choose which engines they want and if Rolls-Royce continue to develop new, more capable engines, why wouldn't customers across the globe continue to specify them? Certification would just be another cost, a cost which they still have to pay today.
On a personal nature, I'm extremely relaxed about what happens after Brexit (I am assuming it will happen because if it doesn't, we would have demonstrated ourselves to be akin to an abused partner - wanting to stop the abuse, but not strong enough to consider life away from said abusive partner - in which case, the EU will know they can impose rules and restrictions on UK without hindrance.) because life will go on, trade will go on.
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For those readers who would like to get an accurate picture of current Brexit state of play in relation to the UK Aerospace Industry, I'd recommend a browse through Dr Richard North's latest piece at his blog EUReferendum.com . Dr North references the European Commission Notice to Stakeholders, dated 13 April 2018.
Dr North further writes.
Those readers of nervous disposition or terminally closed mind perhaps should not read Dr North's blog!
This (Notice to Stakeholders) sets out in four pages just how totally dependent our aviation industry is for everything it does on authorisations granted by EASA, applying to every tiniest detail of how we make aircraft, to the running of our airports, to air traffic control, to the airworthiness of aircraft, to the certification and licensing of pilots, cabin crews, engineers, medical staff and trainers; in short, to every last item of what allows our aviation sector to function.
But as the document repeatedly makes clear, the moment the UK leaves the EU to become what it classifies as "a third country", every one of these authorisations and approvals will lapse. Unless each of them is replicated in time, our factories will close, our aircraft will be grounded, our airports and our entire £31?billion-a-year aerospace industry will shut down overnight.
But as the document repeatedly makes clear, the moment the UK leaves the EU to become what it classifies as "a third country", every one of these authorisations and approvals will lapse. Unless each of them is replicated in time, our factories will close, our aircraft will be grounded, our airports and our entire £31?billion-a-year aerospace industry will shut down overnight.
The only clue Mrs May has given as to how she thinks this chaos can be avoided, as she said at the Mansion House, is that we should be allowed to remain in EASA. This was echoed by our own Civil Aviation Authority, which knows it would take years for us to create our own system. But the commission immediately pointed out that we cannot remain in EASA because, as the rules make clear, this is open only to EU members.
And we cannot even apply for the right for our airlines to fly to the EU and other countries until the moment we become a "third country", by a process that could then take months or even years to negotiate. Some of the biggest industry players have been waking up to the threat all this poses. Airbus and Ryanair, for instance, have both spoken of the possibility that their UK operations could "grind to a halt".
In fact, easyJet has already relocated its base to Austria; and Rolls-Royce, the world's second-largest aero-engine manufacturer, we learned last week, is making preparations to move part of its operations to Germany.
And we cannot even apply for the right for our airlines to fly to the EU and other countries until the moment we become a "third country", by a process that could then take months or even years to negotiate. Some of the biggest industry players have been waking up to the threat all this poses. Airbus and Ryanair, for instance, have both spoken of the possibility that their UK operations could "grind to a halt".
In fact, easyJet has already relocated its base to Austria; and Rolls-Royce, the world's second-largest aero-engine manufacturer, we learned last week, is making preparations to move part of its operations to Germany.
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One of the most fascinating aspects of this discussion and many like it is the notion that the EU institutions impose things on the U.K. Oddly enough we’re an influential full member of the EU up to now, so most of the rules and institutions represent a broad consensus of which we have been a party. We have opposed a few things along the way and in fairness it must be said we haven’t won many of those but we’ve also originated many and so led the way on them.
Re-establishing a relationship with the EU is not a trivial piece of work and the consequences of having no relationship at all will be messy to put it mildly. Currently we know how things work, legally, politically, socially and commercially. If we just walk away with no agreement all of that certainty simply disappears overnight. That doesn’t just affect our relationship with the EU, Our other trading partners work with us under EU arrangements so all that goes for a burton too.
After two years I’m still waiting for someone to balance this dog’s breakfast with a single benefit.
Re-establishing a relationship with the EU is not a trivial piece of work and the consequences of having no relationship at all will be messy to put it mildly. Currently we know how things work, legally, politically, socially and commercially. If we just walk away with no agreement all of that certainty simply disappears overnight. That doesn’t just affect our relationship with the EU, Our other trading partners work with us under EU arrangements so all that goes for a burton too.
After two years I’m still waiting for someone to balance this dog’s breakfast with a single benefit.