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CAA discover they can't remove airspace

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CAA discover they can't remove airspace

Old 31st Mar 2018, 08:31
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CAA discover they can't remove airspace

This is a must-read article for anyone concerned about airspace grabs by airport owners.

''......the CAA had discovered that it lacked the legal powers to enforce the airspace ‘roll back’ it had promised. In other words, the CAA can create new controlled airspace, but cannot remove or amend it if the sponsoring airport refuses to cooperate''.

http://www.*****************/2018/03...ttle-airspace/

Sorry, I can't get the link to work. You can search for the article in Flight Training News. Article is headed, 'Courting a Battle Over Airspace.
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Old 31st Mar 2018, 09:07
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Here's a fair use excerpt of the main point...

It would take a brave person to present a counter view in front of an unashamedly partisan audience, but just such a person was Jon Round, sent by the CAA to present the regulator’s point of view. Whilst saying that he heard the audience’s frustrations, he insisted that airline passengers were contracting for ‘zero risk’ when they bought a ticket, and the needs of GA were a secondary to that consideration. On a more positive note he went on to say that the CAA want greater integration, more class E airspace and more flexible use of airspace. However, he revealed a hitherto unknown factor in the airspace equation. He recalled that in 2016 the CAA had promised that year’s BGA conference that Doncaster’s airspace would be ‘rolled back’ following a Post Implementation Review (PIR) that is part of the airspace change procedure. In the Doncaster PIR, published almost 10 years after controlled airspace was established, the CAA suggested reclassifying 10 of the 12 separate control areas (CTAs) that surround Doncaster’s Control Zone (CTR) as Class E (less restrictive than the existing Class D), and raising the base levels. However, he revealed, Doncaster ‘refused to play ball’ and the CAA had discovered that it lacked the legal powers to enforce the airspace ‘roll back’ it had promised. In other words, the CAA can create new controlled airspace, but cannot remove or amend it if the sponsoring airport refuses to cooperate.

The CAA’s revelation brings back into focus the most fundamental question of controlled airspace around an airport, as first reported by FTN last year. Are CTRs and CTAs a national asset, allocated according to the needs of all airspace users or, as now appears to be the case, once allocated by the CAA do they become the private property of the airport, to do with as they see fit?
Begs the question as to why the CAA don't get the law changed in their favour? Over to Grant Shapps and the APPG?
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Old 31st Mar 2018, 09:42
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Does either hand of the CAA know what the other is doing?

"On a more positive note he went on to say that the CAA want greater integration, more class E airspace and more flexible use of airspace."

Yet in Scotland, where the only bit of British Class E is, the main area was quickly abolished after one of the closest airproxes between a glider and a BA flight!

The story then was that the CAA had decided Class E was not fir for purpose!

(of course, we then went on to have F changed into E+, but that is yet another story)
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Old 31st Mar 2018, 13:54
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The CAA should probably let the FAA know how dangerous Class E is quickly. The US is covered with it!
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Old 31st Mar 2018, 14:39
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The CAA have removed CAS in the past at Blackpool and Southend.
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Old 31st Mar 2018, 14:56
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and Prestwick
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Old 31st Mar 2018, 16:51
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The article states that they can, but not if the airport owner declines to co-operate. Doncaster Sheffield Robin Hood Intergalactic Space Port may become a test case as they don't seem keen to.

Last edited by snapper1; 31st Mar 2018 at 18:34. Reason: Attempted comedic effect.
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Old 31st Mar 2018, 17:43
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Is this just not simply that each airpspace change needs a sponsor? If the Airport donít want to do so, thereís nothing stopping the BGA in developing their own ACP proposal.

FASVIG have done so before.
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 00:01
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Originally Posted by Gonzo View Post
Is this just not simply that each airpspace change needs a sponsor? If the Airport donít want to do so, thereís nothing stopping the BGA in developing their own ACP proposal.

FASVIG have done so before.
That is correct, but with the workload that the BGA and the fantastic individuals all over the country supporting them are under to lead the fight against various ACPs, it becomes like a full time job, it might sounds straightforwards to put a counter ACP in but there needs to be the manpower behind it! FASVIG aside we're dealing with professional consultants who have all the time in the world to dream up ACPs! I'm informed that GA is trying to get some professionals in to take some of the load off.
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 01:24
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Originally Posted by snapper1 View Post
The article states that they can, but not if the airport owner declines to co-operate. Doncaster Sheffield Robin Hood Intergalactic Space Port may become a test case as they don't seem keen to.
Far be it from me to change that, but itís nice to know weekend warriors are kept at bay when Iím flying my jets in there.

We all start somewhere once, mauybe thatís not the place.
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 13:57
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Originally Posted by Hawker 800 View Post
Far be it from me to change that, but itís nice to know weekend warriors are kept at bay when Iím flying my jets in there.

We all start somewhere once, mauybe thatís not the place.
Oh please. Deflate your huge head a little. Doncaster is a sleepy backwater on an international level. If you can't handle sharing airspace with other types of aircraft, maybe you can get a few pointers from more accomplished pilots in countries where it works fine day in and day out. If I can regularly slot my Cessna in and out of places like Cairo, Cape Town, Lagos, Schiphol, Houston Bush, San Francisco etc, then I'm pretty sure Doncaster should be able to cope.
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 14:34
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to know weekend warriors are kept at bay when I’m flying my jets in there.
.

And to think clowns like this are flying around class D in jets
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 17:23
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Maybe he only posts like that on this day...
.
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 17:36
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Far be it from me to change that, but it’s nice to know weekend warriors are kept at bay when I’m flying my jets in there.
They're not. My airfield is under the Donny CTA (with far more movements than sleepy old Donny I might add) and I've never been refused a transit yet. So keep an eye out for me won't you. Oh and all the other traffic from my airfield, turbo twins, choppers, biz jets...
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 20:41
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Aw, come on folks - he just forgot the smiley.

mike hallam.
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Old 1st Apr 2018, 22:21
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Having been operating in their airspace ever since they first obtained it, I must say the Doncaster controllers are very co-operative and helpful.

I wouldn't say that for all other units...
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Old 7th Apr 2018, 17:11
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Originally Posted by planesandthings View Post
That is correct, but with the workload that the BGA and the fantastic individuals all over the country supporting them are under to lead the fight against various ACPs, it becomes like a full time job, it might sounds straightforwards to put a counter ACP in but there needs to be the manpower behind it! FASVIG aside we're dealing with professional consultants who have all the time in the world to dream up ACPs! I'm informed that GA is trying to get some professionals in to take some of the load off.
It is already happening:
http://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-indu...ield-airspace/
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