nppl (m) to nppl (ssea) pros and cons?
Thread Starter
nppl (m) to nppl (ssea) pros and cons?
I will soon be in the market for a new (to me) aircraft. At present I have a 3 axis 2 seat kit built microlight which I will be replacing with something similar. It occured to me that my choice will be wider if I include 2 seat SSEA types in my search.
I know that microlights benefit from reduced landing fees at some airfields and fewer bits of paper to fill in when going to France (I am UK based). What other pros and cons should I consider before making my purchase.
I also know that I might have to upgrade my licence.
Rans6............
I know that microlights benefit from reduced landing fees at some airfields and fewer bits of paper to fill in when going to France (I am UK based). What other pros and cons should I consider before making my purchase.
I also know that I might have to upgrade my licence.
Rans6............
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Plumpton Green
Age: 79
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The NPPL SSEA is only valid in the UK. If you want to fly abroad in anything other than a microlight, you need to get your skates on, you have until 8th March to do the SSEA course and and get the licence application to the LAA. That will then allow you to get a LAPL by filling in a form and writing a cheque.
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cons, Possibly/probably greater fuel costs, other costs same-ish if you stick to permit aircraft, vastly increased if you dont, dependant on type its likely to knock a few very short strips off your list.
Pros, likely faster cruise, larger weather window, payload increase, greater w***y waving prospects
Pros, likely faster cruise, larger weather window, payload increase, greater w***y waving prospects
Pro: Back seat if you want one, longer range, better payload, ability to (eventually) add the ability to fly at night and in cloud, wider range of aeroplanes, most of them will have cabin heaters. With a bit of suitable training, much better able to handle poor visibility and generally poor conditions, much easier to rent aeroplanes if you want to. Some aerobatic types are available.
Con: Less friendly and enthusiastic fellow pilots on average, having to deal with LAA not BMAA for any mods or repairs, higher running costs, need longer runways. You may find that product support for some of the older (but very enjoyable to fly) group A aeroplanes is a bit patchier than for microlights.
Just is: You'll need to learn to fly more procedurally, a few exams and tests.
Me? I have flown both for a couple of decades, and enjoy both. Choose your poison.
If you want a microlight pilot friendly instructor to do your SSEA rating, by all means drop me an email. I do some part time instructing at a school in the midlands, and am happier than the vast majority of SEP instructors to get into lighter kitplanes - if you are going to buy your own, there's much to be said for doing the course in the aeroplane you'll subsequently be flying.
Just a suggested type for what I suspect is your "mission" - have a look at the Rollason Condor.
G
Con: Less friendly and enthusiastic fellow pilots on average, having to deal with LAA not BMAA for any mods or repairs, higher running costs, need longer runways. You may find that product support for some of the older (but very enjoyable to fly) group A aeroplanes is a bit patchier than for microlights.
Just is: You'll need to learn to fly more procedurally, a few exams and tests.
Me? I have flown both for a couple of decades, and enjoy both. Choose your poison.
If you want a microlight pilot friendly instructor to do your SSEA rating, by all means drop me an email. I do some part time instructing at a school in the midlands, and am happier than the vast majority of SEP instructors to get into lighter kitplanes - if you are going to buy your own, there's much to be said for doing the course in the aeroplane you'll subsequently be flying.
Just a suggested type for what I suspect is your "mission" - have a look at the Rollason Condor.
G
Last edited by Genghis the Engineer; 27th Feb 2018 at 12:05.
Thread Starter
what happens to NPPL (ssea) after 8 March? with regards to foreign travel. I assume there will be a work around?
The practicalities of the aircraft I undertand. I will only really be considering group A aircraft with similar performance to microlights but which don't quite meet the rules regarding stall speed and/or empty weight. Some might even be available in either microlight or group A but not necessarily be easy to convert and reclassify. A little more payload would be useful.
I don't yearn to do aerobatics or fly on instruments or at night.
ps. I am happy with a permit type. My current aircraft is on an LAA permit but I am not averse to the BMAA. I might even build another kit aircraft if I can find something with a lot of headroom (I am 6'4" and long in the body & short in the leg) at a price I can afford.
Rans6........
The practicalities of the aircraft I undertand. I will only really be considering group A aircraft with similar performance to microlights but which don't quite meet the rules regarding stall speed and/or empty weight. Some might even be available in either microlight or group A but not necessarily be easy to convert and reclassify. A little more payload would be useful.
I don't yearn to do aerobatics or fly on instruments or at night.
ps. I am happy with a permit type. My current aircraft is on an LAA permit but I am not averse to the BMAA. I might even build another kit aircraft if I can find something with a lot of headroom (I am 6'4" and long in the body & short in the leg) at a price I can afford.
Rans6........
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Here and there
Posts: 534
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The NPPL is embedded within the Air Navigation Order so will continue to exist, and can be used in non-EASA aeroplanes within the UK beyond 08th April 2018.
Pilots who wish to convert to an EASA licence must hold an NPPL(A) with SSEA or SLMG class rating prior to 08th April 2018 in order to take advantage of the conversion agreement in CAP 804 Section 4 Part P. If you miss that date, then you will be required to complete a FULL course of training for the relevant EASA aeroplane licence with no credit for your existing microlight experience. Providing you hold the NPPL(A) with SSEA/SLMG class rating prior to 08th April, you can apply AT ANY TIME in accordance with the conversion agreement.
It is strongly recommended that applicants make sure their NPPL paperwork reaches the LAA by 08th March 2018 to allow sufficient time for review of your application, rectification of any errors, and CAA processing, prior to 08th April 2018.
ifitaint...
Pilots who wish to convert to an EASA licence must hold an NPPL(A) with SSEA or SLMG class rating prior to 08th April 2018 in order to take advantage of the conversion agreement in CAP 804 Section 4 Part P. If you miss that date, then you will be required to complete a FULL course of training for the relevant EASA aeroplane licence with no credit for your existing microlight experience. Providing you hold the NPPL(A) with SSEA/SLMG class rating prior to 08th April, you can apply AT ANY TIME in accordance with the conversion agreement.
It is strongly recommended that applicants make sure their NPPL paperwork reaches the LAA by 08th March 2018 to allow sufficient time for review of your application, rectification of any errors, and CAA processing, prior to 08th April 2018.
ifitaint...
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Plumpton Green
Age: 79
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what happens to NPPL (ssea) after 8 March? with regards to foreign travel. I assume there will be a work around?
The practicalities of the aircraft I undertand. I will only really be considering group A aircraft with similar performance to microlights but which don't quite meet the rules regarding stall speed and/or empty weight. Some might even be available in either microlight or group A but not necessarily be easy to convert and reclassify. A little more payload would be useful.
I don't yearn to do aerobatics or fly on instruments or at night.
ps. I am happy with a permit type. My current aircraft is on an LAA permit but I am not averse to the BMAA. I might even build another kit aircraft if I can find something with a lot of headroom (I am 6'4" and long in the body & short in the leg) at a price I can afford.
Rans6........
The practicalities of the aircraft I undertand. I will only really be considering group A aircraft with similar performance to microlights but which don't quite meet the rules regarding stall speed and/or empty weight. Some might even be available in either microlight or group A but not necessarily be easy to convert and reclassify. A little more payload would be useful.
I don't yearn to do aerobatics or fly on instruments or at night.
ps. I am happy with a permit type. My current aircraft is on an LAA permit but I am not averse to the BMAA. I might even build another kit aircraft if I can find something with a lot of headroom (I am 6'4" and long in the body & short in the leg) at a price I can afford.
Rans6........
Rather more modern, the Sky Ranger is a much improved S6, and also has loads of headroom as evidenced by the amount of time Paul Dewhurst seems to spend happily in one.
G
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Strathaven Airfield
Posts: 895
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My tuppence worth:
Looking at like-for-like, which is what the OP seems to be suggesting....
Microlights and LAA light aircraft both have very similar maintenance regimes: lots of owner work allowed.
With almost identical types - ie C42, Eurostar and Zenair 601s (OK, they have different wings) - the light aircraft version is usually significantly cheaper. People like buying the aircraft they trained on.
Otherwise, if you want four-stroke - and don't mind Lycoming/Contental type engines - then there are much cheaper (to buy) light aircraft. ie Condors. They'll use a bit more fuel though.
So there is a capital/revenue thing here: more cash upfront for a 912 microlight, less money on fuel and maintenance. Less cash upfront for a 912 light aircraft and - if an L or C engine - more fuel and maintenance.
You can hire a factory-built microlight. You can't hire a kit-built light aircraft (I think). You won't be able to hire a CofA aircraft after 8th April without an EASA licence
LAA even have a four-seat Jabiru that you can fly with an NPPL SSEA - so you could put someone in a back seat!
Looking at like-for-like, which is what the OP seems to be suggesting....
Microlights and LAA light aircraft both have very similar maintenance regimes: lots of owner work allowed.
With almost identical types - ie C42, Eurostar and Zenair 601s (OK, they have different wings) - the light aircraft version is usually significantly cheaper. People like buying the aircraft they trained on.
Otherwise, if you want four-stroke - and don't mind Lycoming/Contental type engines - then there are much cheaper (to buy) light aircraft. ie Condors. They'll use a bit more fuel though.
So there is a capital/revenue thing here: more cash upfront for a 912 microlight, less money on fuel and maintenance. Less cash upfront for a 912 light aircraft and - if an L or C engine - more fuel and maintenance.
You can hire a factory-built microlight. You can't hire a kit-built light aircraft (I think). You won't be able to hire a CofA aircraft after 8th April without an EASA licence
LAA even have a four-seat Jabiru that you can fly with an NPPL SSEA - so you could put someone in a back seat!
Thread Starter
I have ploughed through several websites claiming to explain the NPPL (ssea)/LAPL/EASA aircraft types situation now and after 8 April. It would seem, although I haven't seen it explicitly stated, that home built single engined light aircraft may still be flown by pilots with NPPL(ssea) with the same rules as now. I assume this means that flight abroad will still be allowed subject to requesting the permissions from relevant foreign CAAs as it is now?
Unless EASA rules prohibit such permissions being granted?
Rans6.........
Unless EASA rules prohibit such permissions being granted?
Rans6.........
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Plumpton Green
Age: 79
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You can forget about getting permission to fly abroad on an NPPL SSEA. Just look what a hassle it was to get permission to fly to France on one: NPPL Application Progress
With the advent of the LAPL, France promptly withdrew that permission.
With the advent of the LAPL, France promptly withdrew that permission.
Thread Starter
All very confusing/frustrating. For someone starting from the position I am in, with NPPL (m) who is going to have to sell on his Foxbat microlight soon (long story, don't ask on a public forum) and looking for something with a little more range and payload ..........
Looks as if going to an entry level group A all metal kitbuilt (perhaps a Groppo Trail) to get similar performance with enough fuel range and luggage capacity to make touring/camping in France more comfortable and safer (I hate arriving with just fumes in the tank to keep below MTOW) is going to take all of the spontaneity out of trips.
The AME medical and LAPL is just too much hassle for me especially as I haven't even started to upgrade my NPPL (m) yet and the deadline is soon!
As the aircraft type I am looking at are not EASA types I can't believe that the French are making this so difficult.
Crazy.
Rans6...................
Looks as if going to an entry level group A all metal kitbuilt (perhaps a Groppo Trail) to get similar performance with enough fuel range and luggage capacity to make touring/camping in France more comfortable and safer (I hate arriving with just fumes in the tank to keep below MTOW) is going to take all of the spontaneity out of trips.
The AME medical and LAPL is just too much hassle for me especially as I haven't even started to upgrade my NPPL (m) yet and the deadline is soon!
As the aircraft type I am looking at are not EASA types I can't believe that the French are making this so difficult.
Crazy.
Rans6...................
