PIC during checkout
This thread is impressive for the number of irrelevant answers, even by PPrune standards.
Not sure whose jurisdiction this is under, but if it's FAA the question of PIC isn't really important until there's an accident, as long as there is SOMEBODY up front who is legal to be PIC. If there is only one, of course they are it. If more than one, after an accident it will invariably be the most senior/qualified who is judged PIC - this was discussed on another thread recently. So if one is a CFI and the other isn't, the CFI is de facto PIC, if and when it matters. Assuming of course they are qualified - you can imagine a situation, say a CFI who does not have a high-altitude endorsement with a PPL who does, flying a jet up in the FLs.
Insurance under FAA rules is totally irrelevant. You bend the plane and kill 10 people on the ground and you're not insured - you have a big problem, but not with the FAA.
Also, under FAA rules, you can log PIC time even if you're not qualified to be PIC - as long as there is someone else who IS qualified, and you are "sole manipulator" of the controls. That clearly creates some grey areas - if I let my instructor demonstrate something, what does that do for my "sole manipulator" status? But I don't think that's relevant here.
Bottom line is I don't really understand why it's important. Your friend can log PIC time, as long as he is the one flying the aircraft.
Not sure whose jurisdiction this is under, but if it's FAA the question of PIC isn't really important until there's an accident, as long as there is SOMEBODY up front who is legal to be PIC. If there is only one, of course they are it. If more than one, after an accident it will invariably be the most senior/qualified who is judged PIC - this was discussed on another thread recently. So if one is a CFI and the other isn't, the CFI is de facto PIC, if and when it matters. Assuming of course they are qualified - you can imagine a situation, say a CFI who does not have a high-altitude endorsement with a PPL who does, flying a jet up in the FLs.
Insurance under FAA rules is totally irrelevant. You bend the plane and kill 10 people on the ground and you're not insured - you have a big problem, but not with the FAA.
Also, under FAA rules, you can log PIC time even if you're not qualified to be PIC - as long as there is someone else who IS qualified, and you are "sole manipulator" of the controls. That clearly creates some grey areas - if I let my instructor demonstrate something, what does that do for my "sole manipulator" status? But I don't think that's relevant here.
Bottom line is I don't really understand why it's important. Your friend can log PIC time, as long as he is the one flying the aircraft.
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Isn't this a simple case of : the checkee is not insured until the flight has been completed, therfore the checker must be insured and is PIC until the flight is completed.
It's not a case who is qualified by licence or ratings, but by insurance.
It's not a case who is qualified by licence or ratings, but by insurance.
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§ 61.47 Status of an examiner who is authorized by the Administrator to conduct practical tests.
(a) An examiner represents the Administrator for the purpose of conducting practical tests for certificates and ratings issued under this part and to observe an applicant’s ability to perform the areas of operation on the practical test.
(b) The examiner is not the pilot in command of the aircraft during the practical test unless the examiner agrees to act in that capacity for the flight or for a portion of the flight by prior arrangement with:
(1) The applicant; or
(2) A person who would otherwise act as pilot in command of the flight or for a portion of the flight.
(c) Notwithstanding the type of aircraft used during the practical test, the applicant and the examiner (and any other occupants authorized to be on board by the examiner) are not subject to the requirements or limitations for the carriage of passengers that are specified in this chapter.
(a) An examiner represents the Administrator for the purpose of conducting practical tests for certificates and ratings issued under this part and to observe an applicant’s ability to perform the areas of operation on the practical test.
(b) The examiner is not the pilot in command of the aircraft during the practical test unless the examiner agrees to act in that capacity for the flight or for a portion of the flight by prior arrangement with:
(1) The applicant; or
(2) A person who would otherwise act as pilot in command of the flight or for a portion of the flight.
(c) Notwithstanding the type of aircraft used during the practical test, the applicant and the examiner (and any other occupants authorized to be on board by the examiner) are not subject to the requirements or limitations for the carriage of passengers that are specified in this chapter.
My personal approach to any request for me to fly with someone for the purposes of insurance checks, proficiency flying, skill assessment/improvement or formal instruction towards a rating or license, is the same.
I require that the other person acknowledge before the flight that I be PIC, full stop. We will have a discussion about how to work together as a team in the case of an actual emergency and the other person will agree to immediately relinquish control to me when I say "I have control" without questioning the command.
If they are not happy with the above I will politely suggest that they find somebody else to fly with.
I require that the other person acknowledge before the flight that I be PIC, full stop. We will have a discussion about how to work together as a team in the case of an actual emergency and the other person will agree to immediately relinquish control to me when I say "I have control" without questioning the command.
If they are not happy with the above I will politely suggest that they find somebody else to fly with.
