Grant Shapps MP and committee defend GA
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Of course, none of us are arguing with that statement. The two questions that need an answer are;
Given the paucity of numbers involved in GA, is it possible to make airfields pay as they are without developing them as something else?
How, in view of the relentless demand for housing do you maintain a 'brownfield site' designated airfield as an airfield per se?
Your Geezers/old a/c/farm strip scenario is, for the moment, far from accurate.
Given the paucity of numbers involved in GA, is it possible to make airfields pay as they are without developing them as something else?
How, in view of the relentless demand for housing do you maintain a 'brownfield site' designated airfield as an airfield per se?
Your Geezers/old a/c/farm strip scenario is, for the moment, far from accurate.
When I was very young I cycled to the two local airfields and hung around. One of those is now a regional airport with associated security and one airfield has long gone so the opportunity for anyone to discover aviation the way I did has gone too. Is that why GA has so few flying participants?
The brownfield designation has to go.
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Can GA ever be economically viable, YES but only if owns and controls the assets and we are talking about licensed airfields not farm strips. The current difficulty has happened because a great many well heeled pilot owners have not had the foresight to invest in the airfield they use, they have been quite happy to take advantage of the landowners generosity and have cheap flying.
Owner operated airfields are always going to be vulnerable, however enthusiastic and committed they are, they get older and their family will always want to maximize the value, that will also include local authority owners because policies will change over time.
It only needs a group of keen pilots who have enough foresight to get together and buy an airfield, they all could probably buy their own farm strip, so why not invest in a proper airfield. Long term airfields and land in general have proved very good investments, the annual income is small but capital value has increased massively - and will continue to do so because they are not making my more. There is never a right time to invest you have you take a risk just like every business, now is the time to stop whinging and get together.
Owner operated airfields are always going to be vulnerable, however enthusiastic and committed they are, they get older and their family will always want to maximize the value, that will also include local authority owners because policies will change over time.
It only needs a group of keen pilots who have enough foresight to get together and buy an airfield, they all could probably buy their own farm strip, so why not invest in a proper airfield. Long term airfields and land in general have proved very good investments, the annual income is small but capital value has increased massively - and will continue to do so because they are not making my more. There is never a right time to invest you have you take a risk just like every business, now is the time to stop whinging and get together.
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Long term airfields and land in general have proved very good investments, the annual income is small but capital value has increased massively
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The clue is to increase the income.
Most airfields include unused land, never sell, rather use it to generate a long term income.
Solar panels, rented buildings, cabbages, oil seed rape, whatever you can invest in to create an income to support the field.
Most airfields include unused land, never sell, rather use it to generate a long term income.
Solar panels, rented buildings, cabbages, oil seed rape, whatever you can invest in to create an income to support the field.
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Not only do many pilots have cash to spare they have business experience they know how to make it work, where to get finance and support. So get 50 pilots together to buy a share for say £10 or 20k that is a decent starting money pot, when a member leaves his share is sold another pilot will want to join but no guarantee. Success depends on being a well run airfield and that will not be a cheap shoestring outfit.
We all see development land priced at £1M an acre but by the time all the costs and planning conditions are met sellers get a small part of that, the developers get the real cash windfall, so get together a put a sensible offer if you want to keep your airfield.
Cash is king ! If the 'numbers' are right and they almost always will be, your pet airfield/brownfield site so designated, will fall like a ripe plum in response to a joint assault by importuning developers acting in cahoots with the County Authority.
Any bets on what Old Sarum will look like in five to ten years from now ? GA needs a vocal action group to press for legislation placing a legal responsibility on the developers to provide alternative airfield facilities. Would that result in a more costly residential unit ? No where near as much as continued immigration would impose.
Any bets on what Old Sarum will look like in five to ten years from now ? GA needs a vocal action group to press for legislation placing a legal responsibility on the developers to provide alternative airfield facilities. Would that result in a more costly residential unit ? No where near as much as continued immigration would impose.
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I am all for buying a share in an airfield but who is going to sell a suitable airfield? Regional and City Airports are going around buying up or buying into airports but I suspect they are approached by the people trying to sell or are "in the know" so to speak. A quick Google of airports or airfields for sale brings up Perranporth and a few houses for sale with runways.
Many threads on Pprune on the subject of buying an airfield.
Vocal action groups simply lack the finance to buy and run an airfield. (If you want an example, look at the current parties involved in trying to restart Panshanger)
Many threads on Pprune on the subject of buying an airfield.
Vocal action groups simply lack the finance to buy and run an airfield. (If you want an example, look at the current parties involved in trying to restart Panshanger)
Last edited by Bob Upanddown; 2nd Jan 2018 at 14:59.
Indeed, but that is not what I wrote ! VAGs (vocal action groups) would present a strong UNITED lobby to encourage the passage of legislation placing a legal duty on the part of airfield developers to provide facilities alternative to and equal to, that which is about to be lost thru' development.
My comment wasn't about VAGs buying airfields.
My comment wasn't about VAGs buying airfields.
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Not all recreational pilots have huge pots of cash to spare Deltasierra. I fly from a farm strip where all of the aircraft are LAA permit to fly types ranging in value from 6K to 40K with most of the fleet being valued at 12-15K. Many of us make considerable sacrifices to fund our flying. Capt Kremmen is right and cash is king irrespective of the type of base that you fly from. In our instance the land is worth far more than the group of pilots could ever afford to buy. Fortunately the present owner is very air minded but eventually will want to retire and in due course one way or another the land will change hands. The return for any investment would be quite poor, unless a change of use was involved, which being fairly rural is thankfully unlikely. Though I do wonder if a farm strip of over 40 years could be considered as "brownfield" if it becomes disused. A bigger threat IMO is a stables, the riding community are another group of people perceived as having large disposable incomes and I fear there will be a greater return for any future land owner and much less regulation in an Equine environment.
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Out of interest as a UK resident, how does the US support it's huge network of GA airfields? From my experience these seem to be well funded, impressive and well supported, despite being relatively little used. i.e. I can think of many airfields with huge tarmac runways, impressive hangarage and facilities that may only get a couple of movements a day. It seems a shame that we don't have the same level of committment in the UK.
Also as an aside, with the rising interest and development in future personal transport being autonomous flying vehicles such as the multirotor taxi deisgns around at the moment, shouldn't the Government start thinking about protecting tha airfields and infrastructure that will be needed to support these. Once lost, the Government will never get the land back for airfield development.
Also as an aside, with the rising interest and development in future personal transport being autonomous flying vehicles such as the multirotor taxi deisgns around at the moment, shouldn't the Government start thinking about protecting tha airfields and infrastructure that will be needed to support these. Once lost, the Government will never get the land back for airfield development.
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I think many US fields are subsidised. Also the Yanks are much more appreciative of GA whereas here its seen as a rich man's hobby and a nuisance.
Many drones won't require "airfields" as such, however the key point is that, as with everything, the Govt is completely and utterly clueless and can't even see to the end of its nose, and so will continue to kneejerk policy-wise with ill-thought-out schemes and reactionary behaviour that they hope will see it to the end of its 5 years in office. See the current fiasco over Diesel cars for example.
Many drones won't require "airfields" as such, however the key point is that, as with everything, the Govt is completely and utterly clueless and can't even see to the end of its nose, and so will continue to kneejerk policy-wise with ill-thought-out schemes and reactionary behaviour that they hope will see it to the end of its 5 years in office. See the current fiasco over Diesel cars for example.
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Compared to people on minimum wage, zero hours contracts and the like anyone who can afford some sort of flying is a 'rich boy'.
In the US airfields are seen as part of the transportation network and funded accordingly. The taxes on fuel help to fund this, instead of being pumped into the overall "buying votes" bucket like in the UK. The US doesn't have the UK's obsession with punishing people who want to do something a bit different either, so they don't tax the living daylights out of everything aviation to the same extent - this keeps overall activity higher, which supports airfields.
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