PPL Location
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PPL Location
Hi All,
About to start the flying dream via modular training for more reasons than one. Namely although I have an assessment for easyJet with CTC I don't have 123k hanging around. I have considered BAA and their wizz air cadet program in addition to the smartlynx program which are viable options.l for around €62000 However for the time being does anyone have any experience or recomendations for the following FTOs.
Westair at blackpool have quoted £6745 for the basic package and study materials adding estimated fuel costs looking at just over £7200 but I have no idea on time frame with winter around the corner (I work Monday - Friday / Saturday) but would be flexible with getting the hours in due to flexible work arrangements.
American Aviation academy in San Diego is £6100 but with fights / visa / accommodation / TSA fees etc they come in around £9500 however it's 5-8 weeks of unbroken flying and learning.
Ravenair at Liverpool is £7100 minus all study materials and so on
I've also looked into and spoken with Bartolini Air in Poland regarding there 0-fATPL program but 18 months out of work probably isn't a viable option although with this being said they are the direct training providers for FOs to Adria and appear to have a good placement record. I could start here with ATPL theory followed by CPL/MEP/IR
EFT in Florida appear to offer a 4 week PPL for £8500 but I've heard mixed reviews here on pprune of late.
I also live close to manchester but Barton is out of the equation due to the cost being far higher than. Westair or ravenair (same price as most American schools in which you can complete in 4-8 weeks)
For abit of background I'm 25 next week and have wanted to fly since a trial lesson at 15 however bad advice and other career aspirations took place first and here we are. I have a trial flight at west air next week (c-152)and I intend to do the same at ravenair (pa28) 60mins and 30-60mins respectively.
Any and all advice / reccomendations will be much appreciated
About to start the flying dream via modular training for more reasons than one. Namely although I have an assessment for easyJet with CTC I don't have 123k hanging around. I have considered BAA and their wizz air cadet program in addition to the smartlynx program which are viable options.l for around €62000 However for the time being does anyone have any experience or recomendations for the following FTOs.
Westair at blackpool have quoted £6745 for the basic package and study materials adding estimated fuel costs looking at just over £7200 but I have no idea on time frame with winter around the corner (I work Monday - Friday / Saturday) but would be flexible with getting the hours in due to flexible work arrangements.
American Aviation academy in San Diego is £6100 but with fights / visa / accommodation / TSA fees etc they come in around £9500 however it's 5-8 weeks of unbroken flying and learning.
Ravenair at Liverpool is £7100 minus all study materials and so on
I've also looked into and spoken with Bartolini Air in Poland regarding there 0-fATPL program but 18 months out of work probably isn't a viable option although with this being said they are the direct training providers for FOs to Adria and appear to have a good placement record. I could start here with ATPL theory followed by CPL/MEP/IR
EFT in Florida appear to offer a 4 week PPL for £8500 but I've heard mixed reviews here on pprune of late.
I also live close to manchester but Barton is out of the equation due to the cost being far higher than. Westair or ravenair (same price as most American schools in which you can complete in 4-8 weeks)
For abit of background I'm 25 next week and have wanted to fly since a trial lesson at 15 however bad advice and other career aspirations took place first and here we are. I have a trial flight at west air next week (c-152)and I intend to do the same at ravenair (pa28) 60mins and 30-60mins respectively.
Any and all advice / reccomendations will be much appreciated
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I was also looking at intensive PPL. PPL Training & PPL Exam Practice from PPL Cruiser do a PPL for 6K + landings and accommodation.
My local(ish) field would come about at about 9k
I also found Flying Academy in Florida who do a part 141 FAA PPL for about 7-8K inc everything...
FAA being ICAO you then come HOME and go ICAO PPL > NPPL > EASA LAPL > Upgrade via training to EASA PPL.... probably end up about same hrs and cost as UK but 6 to 8weeks USA then approx 10 /15hrs UK for another 3k ish plus what 2 weeks block for the 10/15hrs.
You could also do a Canadian PPL which is also ICAO for about 6k+accom, flights etc.
SA ICAO is about 6k all in and about 5weeks.
NAC also do EASA PPLs in Florida.
I'd be interested in seeing what you find as I am yet to decide on a way fwds. I found not much cost savings outside the UK... but time wise... massive difference due to wx.
My local(ish) field would come about at about 9k
I also found Flying Academy in Florida who do a part 141 FAA PPL for about 7-8K inc everything...
FAA being ICAO you then come HOME and go ICAO PPL > NPPL > EASA LAPL > Upgrade via training to EASA PPL.... probably end up about same hrs and cost as UK but 6 to 8weeks USA then approx 10 /15hrs UK for another 3k ish plus what 2 weeks block for the 10/15hrs.
You could also do a Canadian PPL which is also ICAO for about 6k+accom, flights etc.
SA ICAO is about 6k all in and about 5weeks.
NAC also do EASA PPLs in Florida.
I'd be interested in seeing what you find as I am yet to decide on a way fwds. I found not much cost savings outside the UK... but time wise... massive difference due to wx.
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Don't discount Barton until you have factored in the time & travel costs to Blackpool or Liverpool. A few hundred mile round trips for cancelled lessons will soon dampen the enthusiasm, plus the cost of 5000 - 6000 miles driving needs to go into the equation. I fly from Barton regularly, the schools are goos & delays are virtually none existent.
Ravenair are good but flying from Liverpool can be frustrating. I instructed at Liverpool (nor Ravenair) for 10 years, circuits can be impossible at times with commercial traffic and the transit in and out of the zone is not the best use of time.
I've not flown with Westair but Blackpool is a good learning environment. Hawarden is another option (full disclosure - I now instruct there part time).
Be very, very, weary of paying for a full course up front. I've seen too many lose as a result.
Ravenair are good but flying from Liverpool can be frustrating. I instructed at Liverpool (nor Ravenair) for 10 years, circuits can be impossible at times with commercial traffic and the transit in and out of the zone is not the best use of time.
I've not flown with Westair but Blackpool is a good learning environment. Hawarden is another option (full disclosure - I now instruct there part time).
Be very, very, weary of paying for a full course up front. I've seen too many lose as a result.
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Don't discount Barton until you have factored in the time & travel costs to Blackpool or Liverpool. A few hundred mile round trips for cancelled lessons will soon dampen the enthusiasm, plus the cost of 5000 - 6000 miles driving needs to go into the equation. I fly from Barton regularly, the schools are goos & delays are virtually none existent.
Ravenair are good but flying from Liverpool can be frustrating. I instructed at Liverpool (nor Ravenair) for 10 years, circuits can be impossible at times with commercial traffic and the transit in and out of the zone is not the best use of time.
I've not flown with Westair but Blackpool is a good learning environment. Hawarden is another option (full disclosure - I now instruct there part time).
Be very, very, weary of paying for a full course up front. I've seen too many lose as a result.
Ravenair are good but flying from Liverpool can be frustrating. I instructed at Liverpool (nor Ravenair) for 10 years, circuits can be impossible at times with commercial traffic and the transit in and out of the zone is not the best use of time.
I've not flown with Westair but Blackpool is a good learning environment. Hawarden is another option (full disclosure - I now instruct there part time).
Be very, very, weary of paying for a full course up front. I've seen too many lose as a result.
Hawarden which I happily admit I've never heard of is the same as Blackpool after a quick google maps and after an initial browse on the website looks to be very interesting.
With fair estimation I'm probably looking around the £500-£700 mark for fuel plus an hour each way for Westair and Liverpool respectively using my current vehicle. Whereas Barton more like £200
I did have chat at Barton last week with a very helpful lady whom Ive forgotten the name of but the cost on the initial face of it put me off somewhat however in hindsight I admit this may be unjust.
What you have kindly highlighted was my primary concern with Liverpool the pro of "proper" ATC from day 1 has these cons.
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Don't discount Barton until you have factored in the time & travel costs to Blackpool or Liverpool. A few hundred mile round trips for cancelled lessons will soon dampen the enthusiasm, plus the cost of 5000 - 6000 miles driving needs to go into the equation. I fly from Barton regularly, the schools are goos & delays are virtually none existent.
Ravenair are good but flying from Liverpool can be frustrating. I instructed at Liverpool (nor Ravenair) for 10 years, circuits can be impossible at times with commercial traffic and the transit in and out of the zone is not the best use of time.
I've not flown with Westair but Blackpool is a good learning environment. Hawarden is another option (full disclosure - I now instruct there part time).
Be very, very, weary of paying for a full course up front. I've seen too many lose as a result.
Ravenair are good but flying from Liverpool can be frustrating. I instructed at Liverpool (nor Ravenair) for 10 years, circuits can be impossible at times with commercial traffic and the transit in and out of the zone is not the best use of time.
I've not flown with Westair but Blackpool is a good learning environment. Hawarden is another option (full disclosure - I now instruct there part time).
Be very, very, weary of paying for a full course up front. I've seen too many lose as a result.
Not paying up front is an absolute.
After that, I tihnk that the most important thing is the instructor. "Try out" the instructor, make it clear you're hoping to go commercial - decide if everything (briefings, debriefs, aircraft condition, aircraft and instructor availability) seem likely to give you what you want and need.
After that, think about location.
G
After that, I tihnk that the most important thing is the instructor. "Try out" the instructor, make it clear you're hoping to go commercial - decide if everything (briefings, debriefs, aircraft condition, aircraft and instructor availability) seem likely to give you what you want and need.
After that, think about location.
G
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I looked at Hawarden, but you need to pay landing fees and t&g's..... into of their ppl courses which negates what looks like a good price to start with.
I'm 40 miles from hawarden and 30miles from Caernarfon. This routes takes longer but cost less in fuel.
I'm 40 miles from hawarden and 30miles from Caernarfon. This routes takes longer but cost less in fuel.
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I too am learning at Barton and at LAC Flying School* one or two instructors are Airline Pilots and could/should have an insight to the needs of an aspiring commercial pilot, and an ability to (perhaps) tailor the training to suit.
* Usual disclaimer of only a pupil and no connection.
* Usual disclaimer of only a pupil and no connection.
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What do you mean by the great circle ?
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Not paying up front is an absolute.
After that, I tihnk that the most important thing is the instructor. "Try out" the instructor, make it clear you're hoping to go commercial - decide if everything (briefings, debriefs, aircraft condition, aircraft and instructor availability) seem likely to give you what you want and need.
After that, think about location.
G
After that, I tihnk that the most important thing is the instructor. "Try out" the instructor, make it clear you're hoping to go commercial - decide if everything (briefings, debriefs, aircraft condition, aircraft and instructor availability) seem likely to give you what you want and need.
After that, think about location.
G
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I didn't realize, on the face of it the course looks to be a very good price!
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I too am learning at Barton and at LAC Flying School* one or two instructors are Airline Pilots and could/should have an insight to the needs of an aspiring commercial pilot, and an ability to (perhaps) tailor the training to suit.
* Usual disclaimer of only a pupil and no connection.
* Usual disclaimer of only a pupil and no connection.
The only downside I'm seeing with Barton is there roughly £2000 more expensive than the other 2/3 NW operators in looking at all in. Factoring flights, visa, accommodation, tsa fees, course cost, etc American Aviation academy is £8400 (5 week course) add another couple hundred dollars for 6 weeks for the added accommodation and if time £900 for the night rating.
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You can get a run of bad (and good!) weather at any time but undoubtedly the days are shorter and the weather worse on average over winter. But the sooner you start the sooner you finish whatever the time of year.
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Not paying up front is an absolute.
Small flying schools have a long (and sometimes sordid) history of pocketing your cash and then going bust, so don't pay upfront unless you can get full third party advance payment protection on your money before you hand it over.
There are cost savings to be had by paying up front and there are (FCA regulated) companies that offer advance payment insurance. I have no idea of the premiums and t&c, but Google and a calculator should easily enable anyone to work out the cost/benefit.
Futhermore, credit card purchases are protected up to £30K, under the consumer credit act, (you don't even have to pay the full amount on your credit card, for the full amount to be covered!!) again, I don't know the detail and whether flying training is covered but it will be short work with Google and maybe a phone call to your CC company find out. And obviously you can pay of the CC bill the next day, so there is zero need to incur interest charges.
Last edited by The Old Fat One; 6th Sep 2017 at 11:18.
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I think people who routinely post this as a throwaway line, however well-intentioned, are doing noobie pilot visitors to the site a disservice and actually giving them poor and potentially costly advice. Here is a much better way of saying the same thing:
Small flying schools have a long (and sometimes sordid) history of pocketing your cash and then going bust, so don't pay upfront unless you can get full third party advance payment protection on your money before you hand it over.
There are cost savings to be had by paying up front and there are (FCA regulated) companies that offer advance payment insurance. I have no idea of the premiums and t&c, but Google and a calculator should easily enable anyone to work out the cost/benefit.
Futhermore, credit card purchases are protected up to £30K, under the consumer credit act, (you don't even have to pay the full amount on your credit card, for the full amount to be covered!!) again, I don't know the detail and whether flying training is covered but it will be short work with Google and maybe a phone call to your CC company find out. And obviously you can pay of the CC bill the next day, so there is zero need to incur interest charges.
Small flying schools have a long (and sometimes sordid) history of pocketing your cash and then going bust, so don't pay upfront unless you can get full third party advance payment protection on your money before you hand it over.
There are cost savings to be had by paying up front and there are (FCA regulated) companies that offer advance payment insurance. I have no idea of the premiums and t&c, but Google and a calculator should easily enable anyone to work out the cost/benefit.
Futhermore, credit card purchases are protected up to £30K, under the consumer credit act, (you don't even have to pay the full amount on your credit card, for the full amount to be covered!!) again, I don't know the detail and whether flying training is covered but it will be short work with Google and maybe a phone call to your CC company find out. And obviously you can pay of the CC bill the next day, so there is zero need to incur interest charges.
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Kate, if it were she (it most likely was), is not JUST the receptionist! She is the (part(?)) owner!
The whole place is VERY friendly and helpful, in my experience with them. At least one of the instructors, there, is a member on here.
Maybe, we will meet!
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Sorry if it has been mentioned but you have to consider how you are being charged as well.
Block time, from start of taxi to stoping on your return could be expensive at a busy airport like Liverpool if you are sat at the hold waiting for a stream of Ryanair and Easy jets to land. You may also become quite good at flying in circles waiting for a gap in airliners to be able to land.
I would like to see charges at big airports based on Airborne time or Airborne time plus a set amount for taxi.
I seem to recall at East Midlands where I both learnt and was an instructor it was airborne plus 15 minutes.
If you want to become an Airline pilot is starting to learn at a big airport an advantage? Possibly so but the way you operate alight aircraft at somewhere like East Midlands is very different to how airliners are operated. Flying out of East Midlands was perhaps a disadvantage in the early lessons but did lead to confidence in dealing with Controlled airspace and ATC as I advanced through the course.
When instructing at a small airfield I would encourage my students to visit East Midlands as they neared the end of their PPL or just after qualifying, some PPL's from the sticks seem to just want to stear clear.
Block time, from start of taxi to stoping on your return could be expensive at a busy airport like Liverpool if you are sat at the hold waiting for a stream of Ryanair and Easy jets to land. You may also become quite good at flying in circles waiting for a gap in airliners to be able to land.
I would like to see charges at big airports based on Airborne time or Airborne time plus a set amount for taxi.
I seem to recall at East Midlands where I both learnt and was an instructor it was airborne plus 15 minutes.
If you want to become an Airline pilot is starting to learn at a big airport an advantage? Possibly so but the way you operate alight aircraft at somewhere like East Midlands is very different to how airliners are operated. Flying out of East Midlands was perhaps a disadvantage in the early lessons but did lead to confidence in dealing with Controlled airspace and ATC as I advanced through the course.
When instructing at a small airfield I would encourage my students to visit East Midlands as they neared the end of their PPL or just after qualifying, some PPL's from the sticks seem to just want to stear clear.
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On another note upon enquiring about a rough time scale at another fto I was told they have students who haven't passed within 4-5 years!!! Should this be ringing alarm bells about instructor quality or a case of students not being fussed and having other commitments ...... even so it seems excessive - before the 'life' comments I fully appreciate more important things can crop up.
Yeah possibly! Would be nIce to make some new friends, I'm fairly sure the missus might leave if she hears 'pa28 or 152' one more time
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Sorry if it has been mentioned but you have to consider how you are being charged as well.
Block time, from start of taxi to stoping on your return could be expensive at a busy airport like Liverpool if you are sat at the hold waiting for a stream of Ryanair and Easy jets to land. You may also become quite good at flying in circles waiting for a gap in airliners to be able to land.
I would like to see charges at big airports based on Airborne time or Airborne time plus a set amount for taxi.
I seem to recall at East Midlands where I both learnt and was an instructor it was airborne plus 15 minutes.
If you want to become an Airline pilot is starting to learn at a big airport an advantage? Possibly so but the way you operate alight aircraft at somewhere like East Midlands is very different to how airliners are operated. Flying out of East Midlands was perhaps a disadvantage in the early lessons but did lead to confidence in dealing with Controlled airspace and ATC as I advanced through the course.
When instructing at a small airfield I would encourage my students to visit East Midlands as they neared the end of their PPL or just after qualifying, some PPL's from the sticks seem to just want to stear clear.
Block time, from start of taxi to stoping on your return could be expensive at a busy airport like Liverpool if you are sat at the hold waiting for a stream of Ryanair and Easy jets to land. You may also become quite good at flying in circles waiting for a gap in airliners to be able to land.
I would like to see charges at big airports based on Airborne time or Airborne time plus a set amount for taxi.
I seem to recall at East Midlands where I both learnt and was an instructor it was airborne plus 15 minutes.
If you want to become an Airline pilot is starting to learn at a big airport an advantage? Possibly so but the way you operate alight aircraft at somewhere like East Midlands is very different to how airliners are operated. Flying out of East Midlands was perhaps a disadvantage in the early lessons but did lead to confidence in dealing with Controlled airspace and ATC as I advanced through the course.
When instructing at a small airfield I would encourage my students to visit East Midlands as they neared the end of their PPL or just after qualifying, some PPL's from the sticks seem to just want to stear clear.
Nope, not been mentioned just yet but I'm glad you have! Honest answer I'm not entirely sure for anywhere I've looked as they just stipulate - 45hrs of dual instruction, fees and so fourth
Without sounding stupid Air Bourne plus 15 would mean for example an hour lesson in the air plus 15 minutes of taxi time ?
I think the pro of learning at a large airport is also the con - you get used to atc and controlled airspace early on however time and lessons could be eaten up stuck in a hold pattern in the circuit....fine initially but not so much confirm tuning I'd imagine.
More questions to ask the instructors !