What issues need to be reported in post flight debrief? PPL student question
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What issues need to be reported in post flight debrief? PPL student question
Hi, I am not certain if this is the right thread to post this. As a student pilot, I am struggling with the issue of what needs to be reported. As on my recent flight QXE, I experienced severe turbulence out of nowhere, weather otherwise was almost perfect, 5 to 10kts winds and 9K vis. The result was that my passenger door flung open on C152 and had some of my paperwork that quite literally flew out fo the door. On my return, I only mentioned that I experienced some turbulence on the route and not that my stuff was flying out the door. Before that final leg I had checked that all the doors as part of the checklist. So do i need to report this or what's the scale of these reports one needs to do. Where do I find what needs to be reported and what doesn't?
Well...
Severe turbulence doesn't come out of nowhere.
Clouds, wind over hills and other aircraft couod have been the reason.
If it was severe enough to pop the door I'd recommend a maintenance engineer has a look at it.
This is why I'm hesitant to fly old(er) airplanes as you never know what hasn't been reported.
Severe turbulence doesn't come out of nowhere.
Clouds, wind over hills and other aircraft couod have been the reason.
If it was severe enough to pop the door I'd recommend a maintenance engineer has a look at it.
This is why I'm hesitant to fly old(er) airplanes as you never know what hasn't been reported.
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I Denmark, loosing anything (out) of an aircraft should be reported to AAIB.
We had a similiaer incident in a C150 during a CAA check ride once, the student lost his map, but what failed the student was climbing out of the CTR into the TMA without clearance.
He passed the following check ride.
We had a similiaer incident in a C150 during a CAA check ride once, the student lost his map, but what failed the student was climbing out of the CTR into the TMA without clearance.
He passed the following check ride.
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Well...
Severe turbulence doesn't come out of nowhere.
Clouds, wind over hills and other aircraft couod have been the reason.
If it was severe enough to pop the door I'd recommend a maintenance engineer has a look at it.
This is why I'm hesitant to fly old(er) airplanes as you never know what hasn't been reported.
Severe turbulence doesn't come out of nowhere.
Clouds, wind over hills and other aircraft couod have been the reason.
If it was severe enough to pop the door I'd recommend a maintenance engineer has a look at it.
This is why I'm hesitant to fly old(er) airplanes as you never know what hasn't been reported.
Taimur, report in such a way that someone get a benefit out of your (bad) experience.
Today it was an event, tomorrow a coincidence and next time an accident can be prevented thanks to the reports.
In your case is up to you what to report and how. Be neutral and objective.
CAP 795 my help you as guidance
[I]Hazard identification
A hazard is any condition that can cause or contribute to an aircraft incident or
accident. A hazard identification process enables the collecting, recording, ........
industry trade associations or the CAA Safety Plan.
Safety Reporting
A confidential reporting system should be established to encourage safety reporting. This
should be supported with a just culture providing appropriate protection for the reporter.
This should also include an effective feedback process to the individual and to the wider
organisation where appropriate. This approach should encourage staff at all levels to
proactively report errors, near misses and hazards.
Staff need to have confidence in the just culture and the reporting system. They must
know that confidentiality will be maintained and that the information they submit will be
acted upon, otherwise they will decide that there is no benefit in their reporting.
Have a coffee break with your instructor and explain your concern...
Today it was an event, tomorrow a coincidence and next time an accident can be prevented thanks to the reports.
In your case is up to you what to report and how. Be neutral and objective.
CAP 795 my help you as guidance
[I]Hazard identification
A hazard is any condition that can cause or contribute to an aircraft incident or
accident. A hazard identification process enables the collecting, recording, ........
industry trade associations or the CAA Safety Plan.
Safety Reporting
A confidential reporting system should be established to encourage safety reporting. This
should be supported with a just culture providing appropriate protection for the reporter.
This should also include an effective feedback process to the individual and to the wider
organisation where appropriate. This approach should encourage staff at all levels to
proactively report errors, near misses and hazards.
Staff need to have confidence in the just culture and the reporting system. They must
know that confidentiality will be maintained and that the information they submit will be
acted upon, otherwise they will decide that there is no benefit in their reporting.
Have a coffee break with your instructor and explain your concern...
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If you do NOT consider your instructor as your best resource, then you need to find a new instructor.
There is no such thing as bad air.
Try and visualize aerodynamics as if they were hydrodynamics and consider air to behave like water.
Currents and up and down drafts can certainly be caused by wind over terrain. Just visualize water flowing.
Another ship ( airplane) will leave disturbed air behind.
I'm suspecting you may just have hit a strong thermal.
Everytiing has a cause and effect.
Nothing comes out of nowhere being just 'bad air'.
It's ok. Don't feel bad.
But do still talk to your instructor about it.
This is why you're a student pilot.
You're learning.
Try and visualize aerodynamics as if they were hydrodynamics and consider air to behave like water.
Currents and up and down drafts can certainly be caused by wind over terrain. Just visualize water flowing.
Another ship ( airplane) will leave disturbed air behind.
I'm suspecting you may just have hit a strong thermal.
Everytiing has a cause and effect.
Nothing comes out of nowhere being just 'bad air'.
It's ok. Don't feel bad.
But do still talk to your instructor about it.
This is why you're a student pilot.
You're learning.
I once dived a Cessna 150 to VNE, as part of the old C of A test flight, and both doors popped open simultaneously
As my observer was the engineer who had signed the aircraft as fit to fly I was able to "report" instantly.
As everyone here suggests - let your instructor know any concerns you have, you are unlikely to be the first student to experience these incidents.
As my observer was the engineer who had signed the aircraft as fit to fly I was able to "report" instantly.
As everyone here suggests - let your instructor know any concerns you have, you are unlikely to be the first student to experience these incidents.
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That is, not a big deal provided that the student had been briefed on how to deal with it, as people have killed themselves faffing around trying to shut doors unnecessarily whilst their attention should have been on more important things.
Unexpected turbulence, report to instructor, try to work out why it happened, and how to improve the chances of it not being unexpected next time.
Stuff falling out of an aircraft needs reporting, at least to the instructor if not the CAA, surely?
Oh, and, when you've got your licence, if you take passengers in a 152 the passenger briefing includes:
"If your door comes open, do let me know, but don't worry about it. The door is, after all, only there to keep the draught off - it's the seat belt that stops you falling out."
The door is, after all, only there to keep the draught off - it's the seat belt that stops you falling out.
I was always under the impression that the airflow in flight tended to keep the doors shut rather than open - though I've never tried to open them.
I rather like the idea of bad air, just hanging around on the airborne equivalent of street corners waiting for some unsuspecting pilot to come along so it can trip it up while whistling an innocent tune.
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The same is officially true of 172 doors but, unlike in a 152, I haven't actually had a 172 door come spontaneously open on me, so I don't have any personal experience of flying them with a door open.
Severe turbulence doesn't come out of nowhere.
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I had ATC explain it to me once, after a go-around! - "with the wind in that [unusual] direction you can get a lot of turbulence on the threshold from such-and-such landscape features, suggest you land long", which worked fine.
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C'mon, this was a 152, they do that. Not a big deal, student should have been warned before being sent solo (if it hadn't previously happened in a dual lesson).
Stuff falling out of an aircraft needs reporting, at least to the instructor if not the CAA, surely?
Stuff falling out of an aircraft needs reporting, at least to the instructor if not the CAA, surely?
It never happened before so was the first thought I have been told about this on C152s. reminder to keep stuff tucked away.
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I'm not very good at aerodynamics but surely the Bernoulli effect would tend to suck the doors open, but not very far as the slipstream would then push them shut? So the default position would be just cracked open a bit. My own experience with C152 doors would bear that out.
I'm not high hours on C150/152, but over 30 years of occasionally renting them I've never experienced or heard of a door problem.
I have experienced a Pa28 door opening in flight, due to top latch not catching.
I have experienced a Pa28 door opening in flight, due to top latch not catching.