Glasgow ATC to ban zone transits in July and August
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Glasgow ATC to ban zone transits in July and August
Hi,
Has anyone more information on what is happening at Glasgow ATC?
It appears they won't be giving zone transits for GA over the summer due to staff shortages.
Have also hear the based GA activity is being seriously limited.
Was there any consultation over this?
Has anyone more information on what is happening at Glasgow ATC?
It appears they won't be giving zone transits for GA over the summer due to staff shortages.
Have also hear the based GA activity is being seriously limited.
Was there any consultation over this?
Is this geniunely new?, or just an announcement of reality?
In my recent experience, anywhere near Glasgow you go over or round - transits did not seem to be obtainable anyhow.
G
In my recent experience, anywhere near Glasgow you go over or round - transits did not seem to be obtainable anyhow.
G
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However, I've never been refused a transit at Glasgow in 29 years and many dozens of occasions. Even managed to get ad hoc practice ILS's. They have been unfailingly helpful.
I hope for the sake of the recently opened flight school and the UAS the problems are short lived.
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It's been a number of years since I flew around the Central Belt but Glasgow were always helpful whenever I was in that area, did a few zone transits and one low approach/GA and never had any trouble. Most of the time I just went around though.
Can be common at airfields to have operational compromises due to ATC staffing issues. Can be caused by Annual Leave, sickness etc.
Can be common at airfields to have operational compromises due to ATC staffing issues. Can be caused by Annual Leave, sickness etc.
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Also never been refused a transit of Glasgow in many years flying. And they have typically been more flexible than some other zones I could mention, offering direct routings without prompting etc.
I fear this is the future, with fewer ATCOs and ever-declining experience of how to handle IFR/VFR mix. But the UAS and based civils must surely have some say?
I fear this is the future, with fewer ATCOs and ever-declining experience of how to handle IFR/VFR mix. But the UAS and based civils must surely have some say?
According to the Airspace Charter, airfields which manage their own controlled airspace MUST allow access by other traffic as far as operationally possible and should keep a record of refusals.
If the ATC unit has a staffing issue and continually refuses transits without reasonable cause, complain to the CAA.
If the ATC unit has a staffing issue and continually refuses transits without reasonable cause, complain to the CAA.
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It's nice to get a transit if you need one and I've never been refused on the very few times I've requested one but using the VFR alley running north/south on a listening squad covers most of the routes I need for Cumbernauld Strathaven etc. , and if coming back up the road from Engurland to anywhere in the North/Notheast skirting the east side of the Edinburgh zone is the most direct route for transiting the central belt and is pretty scenic ride. I suppose the new club at Glasgow would be most affected.
Last edited by piperboy84; 27th Jun 2017 at 18:02.
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Words to this effect........
EGPF-A1962/17
From: 19/06/2017 00:01 UTC
To: PERM
LOCAL TRAFFIC REGULATIONS, 1 AIRPORT REGULATIONS.
CHANGE PARAGRAPH C TO READ
ALL PLEASURE, TRAINING AND NON-BUSINESS GENERAL AVIATION TRAFFIC IS
SUBJECT TO PRIOR NOTIFICATION TO AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL, VIA AFPEX OR
ALTERNATIVE FLIGHT PLANNING SYSTEMS. THE FILING OF A FLIGHT PLAN
DOES NOT CONSTITUTE PERMISSION TO USE GLASGOW AIRPORT.
ADD NEW PARAGRAPH 1.J
MICROLIGHTS AND GYROCOPTERS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO USE THE AERODROME
UNLESS IN EMERGENCY.
EGPF AD 2.20 REFERS
EGPF-A1962/17
From: 19/06/2017 00:01 UTC
To: PERM
LOCAL TRAFFIC REGULATIONS, 1 AIRPORT REGULATIONS.
CHANGE PARAGRAPH C TO READ
ALL PLEASURE, TRAINING AND NON-BUSINESS GENERAL AVIATION TRAFFIC IS
SUBJECT TO PRIOR NOTIFICATION TO AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL, VIA AFPEX OR
ALTERNATIVE FLIGHT PLANNING SYSTEMS. THE FILING OF A FLIGHT PLAN
DOES NOT CONSTITUTE PERMISSION TO USE GLASGOW AIRPORT.
ADD NEW PARAGRAPH 1.J
MICROLIGHTS AND GYROCOPTERS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO USE THE AERODROME
UNLESS IN EMERGENCY.
EGPF AD 2.20 REFERS
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Is it possible the airport is having a bit buyers remorse about trying to get their movement numbers up now that those additional GA movements are mixing it up in the circuit with the CAT?
Similar. The NOTAM is talking about the airport, not all the airspace around it.
My personal experience has been of friendly cooperation by ATC when transiting Glasgow and Edinburgh zones. Last time I was in a glider and even then they were cool about it.
My personal experience has been of friendly cooperation by ATC when transiting Glasgow and Edinburgh zones. Last time I was in a glider and even then they were cool about it.
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What I have heard is that Glasgow's watches should have six people covering four positions. But there are now only four staff to cover the four positions, so things will be getting very very busy when staff take their mandatory breaks.
The result of that, we have been told - unofficially - is that it will be very unlikely that any GA will get permission for zone transits.
Now, this may have been a polite, behind the scenes, request from individual controllers who come to Strathaven - we had the Large Model Association's airshow here last weekend and there was a lot of talking and not much flying due to the wind! - because they can see what is bound to happen next month.
There has certainly been nothing official - or unofficial - in terms of discussion with NATS about how to make the most of this supposed situation with local airfields such as Cumbernauld and Strathaven.
As for the NOTAM:
I wonder when the last time was that a microlight landed at Glasgow? I was responsible for Glasgow's ban on microlights in their entire airspace being lifted about 10 years ago. When we asked to land during the ash-cloud shutdown, the fees totalled £140! So Strathaven pilots just flew down the main runway at 20ft for free! Have never heard of any microlights landing at Glasgow!
There is one gyro who has been going in to Leading Edge on a regular basis, so I suppose this has been targeted at him.
(Was talking to Alan at LE last week and he said he was about to add another aircraft to his fleet, so Glasgow-based GA must be OK)
Not sure what the rest of the NOTAM means - you have to file a flight plan to access Class D anyway, don't you? Traditionally, a radio request for a zone transit was regarded as such, but over the past few years with the introduction of electronic strips - and the loss of assistants! - Glasgow and Edinburgh have asked that people call up beforehand to set up their route.
Obviously, Strathaven has not got an ICAO code - and has been refused one by the allocation authorities - so our flight plans are XXXX to XXXX ! Not too helpful!
The result of that, we have been told - unofficially - is that it will be very unlikely that any GA will get permission for zone transits.
Now, this may have been a polite, behind the scenes, request from individual controllers who come to Strathaven - we had the Large Model Association's airshow here last weekend and there was a lot of talking and not much flying due to the wind! - because they can see what is bound to happen next month.
There has certainly been nothing official - or unofficial - in terms of discussion with NATS about how to make the most of this supposed situation with local airfields such as Cumbernauld and Strathaven.
As for the NOTAM:
I wonder when the last time was that a microlight landed at Glasgow? I was responsible for Glasgow's ban on microlights in their entire airspace being lifted about 10 years ago. When we asked to land during the ash-cloud shutdown, the fees totalled £140! So Strathaven pilots just flew down the main runway at 20ft for free! Have never heard of any microlights landing at Glasgow!
There is one gyro who has been going in to Leading Edge on a regular basis, so I suppose this has been targeted at him.
(Was talking to Alan at LE last week and he said he was about to add another aircraft to his fleet, so Glasgow-based GA must be OK)
Not sure what the rest of the NOTAM means - you have to file a flight plan to access Class D anyway, don't you? Traditionally, a radio request for a zone transit was regarded as such, but over the past few years with the introduction of electronic strips - and the loss of assistants! - Glasgow and Edinburgh have asked that people call up beforehand to set up their route.
Obviously, Strathaven has not got an ICAO code - and has been refused one by the allocation authorities - so our flight plans are XXXX to XXXX ! Not too helpful!
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The NOTAM I was referring to has now been replaced with the one above.
It previously asked that outbounds use TWR frequency and inbounds and transits use approach. ATC would be tactically manned at night due to staff shortages.
That NOTAM had been in place for about a year.
It previously asked that outbounds use TWR frequency and inbounds and transits use approach. ATC would be tactically manned at night due to staff shortages.
That NOTAM had been in place for about a year.
Is it any different now?
They used to join downwind right hand for 24(23). On one occasion, a Viscount called downwind and we couldn't see it - until it climbed to go over the Erskine Bridge!!
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If my experience at other ATSUs is comparable to operating at GLA it will depend on traffic, Wx and various other circumstances, including individual ATCO judgment.
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I operated from farm fields within the Glasgow zone for many years and I still regularly get VFR clearances through the Glasgow zone. During all this time, I have found Glasgow ATC almost unfailingly helpful and have almost never been refused a clearance.
I appreciate that they are currently short staffed and that this might restrict VFR clearances at busy times but hopefully these will still be available most of the time, especially if you phone a little in advance. Time will tell......
I appreciate that they are currently short staffed and that this might restrict VFR clearances at busy times but hopefully these will still be available most of the time, especially if you phone a little in advance. Time will tell......
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I think people might be reading too much into this and jumping to conclusions.
From the NOTAM there's nothing implying that zone transits will be banned, however due to the extra workload on ATCOs there will be the slight possibility of restrictions operationally. As is normal with any operating environment.
Probably nothing to see here, move along, unless there's the odd bad day when Fred McController phones in sick, traffic gets busy, GMC and TWR are combined, a foreign pilot who's never visited GLA before can't understand a readback and blocks the frequency for 5 minutes trying to readback a clearance multiple times and someone declares an emergency, in which case Joe Bloggs in his C152 will be politely told to go around the zone or asked to orbit for a wee while. Any of which can happen at a normal day at any unit with a Class D zone.
From the NOTAM there's nothing implying that zone transits will be banned, however due to the extra workload on ATCOs there will be the slight possibility of restrictions operationally. As is normal with any operating environment.
Probably nothing to see here, move along, unless there's the odd bad day when Fred McController phones in sick, traffic gets busy, GMC and TWR are combined, a foreign pilot who's never visited GLA before can't understand a readback and blocks the frequency for 5 minutes trying to readback a clearance multiple times and someone declares an emergency, in which case Joe Bloggs in his C152 will be politely told to go around the zone or asked to orbit for a wee while. Any of which can happen at a normal day at any unit with a Class D zone.