i dont believe it!
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Speaking as an Instructor and FRE/FE/CRE/TRE as wondering what I needed to become a "senior" Instructor......
It is actually a thing bose-x, we have one at our airfield. I think the title is bestowed upon them in some way. I haven't quite yet plucked up the courage to ask him how he got it!
On the actual incident - according to David Ogilvy the STampe does indeed have brakes which are too powerful/vicious to be used while taxying and "are intended for parking only".
As I see it the primary concern would be that the throttle might open under vibration, but for all we know this particular aeroplane may have had a throttle lock of some kind (a pin in the throttle quadrant, a physical blanking plate like a U/C ground lock or even just a strap around the throttle from the back). Any of these would adequately mitigate the risk of the throttl;e openning after the start.
The overall risk is still higher than it could be, but whether it is low enough to be tolerable is an individual judgement. It's probably a lower overall risk than commenting on your wife's weight, after all...
PDR
There is a delightful story about an Auster in the 1950s at Sydney's Bankstown Airport that was handswung with the throttle incorrectly set and no chocks and took off, all by itself, on its first ever solo.
It buzzed the field (narrowly missing the tower at one point) for a while, flying wider and wider circles and slowly gaining altitude.
Bankstown is very near Kingsford Smith, Sydney's international airport so this was quite alarming, the RAAF were called in and dispatched a Wirraway that intercepted it when it started heading out over the sea.
They returned unsuccessfully claiming the machine gun had frozen and couldn't fire. The story I was told was that was the reason given by the crew to waiting journalists on their return to the Richmond RAAF base, but as they were telling this to a reporters, a whole belt load's worth of empty cartridge cases dropped onto the apron while a ground handler was putting it to bed...
Auster 1, RAAF 0
Anyway the Navy then dispatched 2 brand new, state of the art (well to the RAN anyway) Meteors. They had terrible trouble trying to get their speed down to take a decent shot at the little Auster puttering along minding its own business, their stall speed exceeded the Auster's Vne! Anyway by the time they managed to get into a position to try shooting it - their guns had frozen too (apparently) so returned without result.
Auster 1, RAN 0
Finally the Navy dispatched an aging Sea Fury (they were coming to the end of their service but still in use) that successfully shot the poor old thing down over the sea
Auster 0, RAN 1 in the final.
Again the story I heard was the Sea Fury pilot subsequently painted a small Auster symbol next to the cockpit as a 'kill'.
True story (cannot vouch for the RAAF actually firing after they claimed not to but even if that bit isn't true, it should be
)
It buzzed the field (narrowly missing the tower at one point) for a while, flying wider and wider circles and slowly gaining altitude.
Bankstown is very near Kingsford Smith, Sydney's international airport so this was quite alarming, the RAAF were called in and dispatched a Wirraway that intercepted it when it started heading out over the sea.
They returned unsuccessfully claiming the machine gun had frozen and couldn't fire. The story I was told was that was the reason given by the crew to waiting journalists on their return to the Richmond RAAF base, but as they were telling this to a reporters, a whole belt load's worth of empty cartridge cases dropped onto the apron while a ground handler was putting it to bed...
Auster 1, RAAF 0
Anyway the Navy then dispatched 2 brand new, state of the art (well to the RAN anyway) Meteors. They had terrible trouble trying to get their speed down to take a decent shot at the little Auster puttering along minding its own business, their stall speed exceeded the Auster's Vne! Anyway by the time they managed to get into a position to try shooting it - their guns had frozen too (apparently) so returned without result.
Auster 1, RAN 0
Finally the Navy dispatched an aging Sea Fury (they were coming to the end of their service but still in use) that successfully shot the poor old thing down over the sea
Auster 0, RAN 1 in the final.
Again the story I heard was the Sea Fury pilot subsequently painted a small Auster symbol next to the cockpit as a 'kill'.
True story (cannot vouch for the RAAF actually firing after they claimed not to but even if that bit isn't true, it should be
)
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Prop swings do vary....
At Jack Brown's Seaplane base in Winter Haven Florida your instructor will pull the prop through from the rear while standing ON THE FLOAT.
If you were standing in front of the Cub you would be waist deep in the lake.
(which is frequented by alligators and very nasty snakes).
If you were standing in front of the Cub you would be waist deep in the lake.
(which is frequented by alligators and very nasty snakes).
Join Date: Apr 2017
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the term senior is relative, how old are people in senior school? why should senior instructor imply senior citizen?
anyway the thread seems to be about risk management, surely chocks as belt and braces should have been considered, perhaps the pilot was having a senior citizen moment!
anyway the thread seems to be about risk management, surely chocks as belt and braces should have been considered, perhaps the pilot was having a senior citizen moment!
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Rubbish. I am Head of Training for two ATO and have never heard of such a qualification. A self appointed title maybe.
In fact I am a President Instructor.
Gnome de PPRuNe
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Saw a runaway Beagle Pup about thirty years ago - started in the proper manner by the key, two people in the cockpit.
Presumably the throttle was fairly wide open and the brakes were off; it shot forward, wingtip clipped a petrol pump (or something similar) on the corner of a hangar which spun it round the pump and into the side of the hangar. It was very briefly heading my way and about thirty feet way... ulp!
Right wing clearly wrinkled, not sure about the prop and engine. I believe it was a couple of mechanics who were intending to just taxy it elsewhere on the airfield.
Presumably the throttle was fairly wide open and the brakes were off; it shot forward, wingtip clipped a petrol pump (or something similar) on the corner of a hangar which spun it round the pump and into the side of the hangar. It was very briefly heading my way and about thirty feet way... ulp!
Right wing clearly wrinkled, not sure about the prop and engine. I believe it was a couple of mechanics who were intending to just taxy it elsewhere on the airfield.
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heres a good link to threat and error management - https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/...ning_(OGHFA_BN)
as a previous member pointed out risk is perceived differently by different people, if you were watching from the cafe, it looks low risk, but if you owned one of the parked aircraft it was pointing at it would be high risk!
as the previous posts have shown, ground accidents happen and will continue to do so, but we have to reduce risk otherwise insurance costs will continue to rise for us all.
as a previous member pointed out risk is perceived differently by different people, if you were watching from the cafe, it looks low risk, but if you owned one of the parked aircraft it was pointing at it would be high risk!
as the previous posts have shown, ground accidents happen and will continue to do so, but we have to reduce risk otherwise insurance costs will continue to rise for us all.
Join Date: Aug 2005
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George Carlin on adding extra words and titles, Captain v Pilot
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=46fOtLfYC4Q
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=46fOtLfYC4Q
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One sign of a 'senior' instructor is that they wear white 'pilot's' shirts with black trousers and always have four stripes. I do remember one or two.
I personally haven't flown for a number of years now so am becoming very knowledgable about all matters aviation. I therefore can often be found offering my vaste knowledge of aviation relation matters. I maybe not the only pprune poster in this position
I personally haven't flown for a number of years now so am becoming very knowledgable about all matters aviation. I therefore can often be found offering my vaste knowledge of aviation relation matters. I maybe not the only pprune poster in this position
Ah - you mean like the way I am required to give long and aggressive lectures to people on the absolute eviles of smoking, having myself given up WELL over a year ago...
PDR
PDR
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Obviously I do not know the circumstances in this particular case, but I always remember the gist of what Bob Grimstead said many years ago about prop-swinging on you own. His wise words go something like:
1) Tie the stick back and apply handbrake if there is one.
2) Set and lock the throttle at the appropriate setting.
3) Chock the wheels.
4) Tie the tail to something solid with a method of releasing it when in the cockpit after start.
5) Switch the fuel OFF. (The engine will normally run more than long enough for you to get round and switch the fuel on again after a successful start. Try it. You will be surprised how long your engine will run particularly at low revs with the fuel switched off!)
Only then swing the prop using the other normal precautions. You cannot be too careful imho.
PS In single seaters like the Turbulent, D5, Colibri etc, stand behind the prop, in front of the wing with one hand on the switches or throttle.
PPS Obviously, point the plane away from other people, aircraft or solid obstructions!
1) Tie the stick back and apply handbrake if there is one.
2) Set and lock the throttle at the appropriate setting.
3) Chock the wheels.
4) Tie the tail to something solid with a method of releasing it when in the cockpit after start.
5) Switch the fuel OFF. (The engine will normally run more than long enough for you to get round and switch the fuel on again after a successful start. Try it. You will be surprised how long your engine will run particularly at low revs with the fuel switched off!)
Only then swing the prop using the other normal precautions. You cannot be too careful imho.
PS In single seaters like the Turbulent, D5, Colibri etc, stand behind the prop, in front of the wing with one hand on the switches or throttle.
PPS Obviously, point the plane away from other people, aircraft or solid obstructions!