PA32 Saratoga - short field
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Down at the sharp pointy end, where all the weather is made.
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One last bit of info, it has a 3% gradient...
TOO
Not making a choice of right or wrong, but an observation:
The posts from UK based pilots are overwhelmingly 'against', the posts (elsewhere) from US based pilots are much more 'for'.
Not sure if there are any conclusions to be drawn from this, just interesting.
The posts from UK based pilots are overwhelmingly 'against', the posts (elsewhere) from US based pilots are much more 'for'.
Not sure if there are any conclusions to be drawn from this, just interesting.
I watched on my home strip as a friend nearly killed himself and his family in this incident many years ago.
https://assets.publishing.service.go...BMKE_10-93.pdf
That was an Arrow. Having owned a low tail PA32 I would not risk it.
https://assets.publishing.service.go...BMKE_10-93.pdf
That was an Arrow. Having owned a low tail PA32 I would not risk it.
It is well known to all aviation forum participants that both the air and gravity behave totally different the other side of the great pond.
Ahum ahum
Or was that other forum about John Deere craft, perhaps?
Ahum ahum
Or was that other forum about John Deere craft, perhaps?
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Sam, the PA32 family contains a number of subtly different models, that all behave differently in the take-off phase. You might break them down at follows, based in their take-off performance;
1. PA32-300 - Cherokee 6, which will comfortably go out of the strips you're talking about, given the right conditions. Useful load circa 1,400lbs (although some late ones were certified at 1,600lbs)
2. PA32R-300 - Lance I, a straight tail lance, which is only just behind the C6 in terms of take-off performance. Useful load circa 1,250-1,300lbs
3. PA32R-301 - Saratoga, this needs more ground for the takeoff roll and the useful load is 1,300lbs MAXIMUM and often less (although very late Saratoga's with all the kit may have as little as 950lbs u/l)
4. PA32RT-300 - Lance II with the T-tail. Because of a lack of airflow from the prop over the elevator, you get no elevator authority until you approach take-off speed. This results in a 50% longer take off distance, over and above a C6, or Lance I, and probably 35-40% longer than a Saratoga.
You need to be absolutely certain that the other people speaking are remembering the right model, when they give you advice, as memory can be a funnily selective thing.
1. PA32-300 - Cherokee 6, which will comfortably go out of the strips you're talking about, given the right conditions. Useful load circa 1,400lbs (although some late ones were certified at 1,600lbs)
2. PA32R-300 - Lance I, a straight tail lance, which is only just behind the C6 in terms of take-off performance. Useful load circa 1,250-1,300lbs
3. PA32R-301 - Saratoga, this needs more ground for the takeoff roll and the useful load is 1,300lbs MAXIMUM and often less (although very late Saratoga's with all the kit may have as little as 950lbs u/l)
4. PA32RT-300 - Lance II with the T-tail. Because of a lack of airflow from the prop over the elevator, you get no elevator authority until you approach take-off speed. This results in a 50% longer take off distance, over and above a C6, or Lance I, and probably 35-40% longer than a Saratoga.
You need to be absolutely certain that the other people speaking are remembering the right model, when they give you advice, as memory can be a funnily selective thing.
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I went into Connemara 2 years ago in a PA32-300. 600 mètres, and with a pronounced downward slope which we had to accept due to the wind. Lightish after a flight from London with two up front and one passenger. Pilot had about 150 hours and did a good job stopping. Plenty of runway left without flatspotting the tyres. Much heavier for take off, due to fuel to return to London. Standard short field, 2 stages, downward slope and wind assisted, and it was quite cold. It was again easy.
However, it was a hard runway, and I think it would have been marginal on a level one. 400 metre grass. Well, if you are really firm about acceptable conditions then fine. A Cherry 6 would be a better option. Lose about 15 kts in the cruise but infinitely better short field. Imagine you get comfortable with the landings, then one day there's a gusty crosswind.....I am a really good cross wind pilot, but it can burn up your runway. Take off in a Toga uses lots of grass. Fly in to White Waltham and give it a go
However, it was a hard runway, and I think it would have been marginal on a level one. 400 metre grass. Well, if you are really firm about acceptable conditions then fine. A Cherry 6 would be a better option. Lose about 15 kts in the cruise but infinitely better short field. Imagine you get comfortable with the landings, then one day there's a gusty crosswind.....I am a really good cross wind pilot, but it can burn up your runway. Take off in a Toga uses lots of grass. Fly in to White Waltham and give it a go
I have flown the Six, Lance 1 and T Tail plus the Saratoga.
I only ever bought one which I used in the USA and Australia.
The low tail 300HP Lance is the best.
With the wind and temperature on the right day you will get in an out one up in this.
However is it worth the risk?
I suspect you are planning to land at a small strip in a remote area Sam?
I only ever bought one which I used in the USA and Australia.
The low tail 300HP Lance is the best.
With the wind and temperature on the right day you will get in an out one up in this.
However is it worth the risk?
I suspect you are planning to land at a small strip in a remote area Sam?
Sam, the very best advice came from Arfur D. in #14. Unless you really have to, don’t do it !
I’ve been around for a while and wouldn’t look at less than 700m. in a Saratoga and that on a cold day with a bit of HW.
It’s always easy getting in…..it’s the getting out that’s the problem !
I’ve been around for a while and wouldn’t look at less than 700m. in a Saratoga and that on a cold day with a bit of HW.
It’s always easy getting in…..it’s the getting out that’s the problem !
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Bolt head airfield in Devon was a regular stop in my Saratoga, with 4 POB and (620m grass) was never problematic in the slightest - partly due to being well drained, a firm well tended runway and a pretty reliable sea breeze, and partly due to familiarity with the aircraft and short-field techniques.
On the other hand, departing Hilversham (700m grass, and not that well drained) on a still, damp day is not something that I'd be in a hurry to do again - and that was after I'd reminded the passengers that the laws on recreational drugs are not as lax in the UK as Holland, and seen 3 people head for a bin....
ILAFFT
On the other hand, departing Hilversham (700m grass, and not that well drained) on a still, damp day is not something that I'd be in a hurry to do again - and that was after I'd reminded the passengers that the laws on recreational drugs are not as lax in the UK as Holland, and seen 3 people head for a bin....
ILAFFT
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JS, where was that? Looks stunning!
Sam - you just need to run the numbers in the POH, and make your own informed decision. Interesting that people in the US are being more positive about a 400m grass strip.
You'd definitely land it in there - no problems. But perhaps struggle a little to take it off again!
Sam - you just need to run the numbers in the POH, and make your own informed decision. Interesting that people in the US are being more positive about a 400m grass strip.
You'd definitely land it in there - no problems. But perhaps struggle a little to take it off again!