Buying MOGAS from petrol stations
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Buying MOGAS from petrol stations
Hi,
What experience do people have when buying MOGAS from petrol stations for their aircraft given the rules governing the maximum you can buy in any one go as outlined here:
What is a jerry can? A guide on how to legally store petrol - BBC Newsbeat
For a lot of sorties you'd probably want to fill 3 x 20 litre jerry can at least.
For those running on MOGAS what's been your experiences at petrol stations?
Cheers
What experience do people have when buying MOGAS from petrol stations for their aircraft given the rules governing the maximum you can buy in any one go as outlined here:
What is a jerry can? A guide on how to legally store petrol - BBC Newsbeat
For a lot of sorties you'd probably want to fill 3 x 20 litre jerry can at least.
For those running on MOGAS what's been your experiences at petrol stations?
Cheers
I never do anything else. Fuel tanks in the plane are 2 x 29 litres, I usually fill up 2 jerrycans of 20 litres each. On a rare occasion I top up from the fuel station near the airfield. Never a problem. Neither do I hear of problems from my fellow Rotax users, who all do likewise.
Don't forget, very unlikely that your local petrol station sells MOGAS (ethanol-free petrol). They sell petrol - this is, or isn't important for aircraft using MOGAS on the basis of an STC (that specifically prohibits an ethanol content).
My gliding club's tug - Rotax Falke - has been running on petrol station unleaded for 11 years now; snagless.
The county petroleum officer has checked and is happy with our arrangements for collecting it: 10 jerry cans in a trailer.
The county petroleum officer has checked and is happy with our arrangements for collecting it: 10 jerry cans in a trailer.
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I regularly fill four 20litre cans at the local filling station, no problems.
When there was a fuel shortage a few years ago I was asked what the four cans were for. "To fill the aircraft". "No problem mate, that's important".
Nice to have an aviation friendly garage.
As for whether it's legal or not, I just don't tell no one!
When there was a fuel shortage a few years ago I was asked what the four cans were for. "To fill the aircraft". "No problem mate, that's important".
Nice to have an aviation friendly garage.
As for whether it's legal or not, I just don't tell no one!
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I don't know any gas station selling Mogas, they sell autofuel. There are some fuels coming closer to Mogas than others, like BP and Total deliver Ethanol-free fuels, but they usually do not open that officially for aviation use.
Most current autofuel (EN) contain ethanol and some additives may be quite bad for the older aviation engines, so one has to do some research, which can be used and which not. More modern aviation engines may be less picky with Ethanol, but the POH will tell you. As most of us will run on STC, the best is to check with your STC issuer which fuels are covered, as the usual Autofuel STC is based on fuel norms no longer existent at tap (or secretly changed by EU buttheads).
I have never come across a limitation of the garage how much fuel to take in jerry cans from tap. As we are a region with quite some farming, they are used to jerry can usage. There are some limitations from carrying dangerous goods laws, you have to keep in mind though, such as: jerry cans are to be carried well vented and outside the passenger cabin, only in cases with certain stickers on it, cans no older then I guess it was 6 years, if carried more than 3x20l with certain dangerous good carriage permit etceteras - in reality nobody really cares, but if you have a road check by law enforcement, be prepared to not speak too loud ;-).
Most current autofuel (EN) contain ethanol and some additives may be quite bad for the older aviation engines, so one has to do some research, which can be used and which not. More modern aviation engines may be less picky with Ethanol, but the POH will tell you. As most of us will run on STC, the best is to check with your STC issuer which fuels are covered, as the usual Autofuel STC is based on fuel norms no longer existent at tap (or secretly changed by EU buttheads).
I have never come across a limitation of the garage how much fuel to take in jerry cans from tap. As we are a region with quite some farming, they are used to jerry can usage. There are some limitations from carrying dangerous goods laws, you have to keep in mind though, such as: jerry cans are to be carried well vented and outside the passenger cabin, only in cases with certain stickers on it, cans no older then I guess it was 6 years, if carried more than 3x20l with certain dangerous good carriage permit etceteras - in reality nobody really cares, but if you have a road check by law enforcement, be prepared to not speak too loud ;-).
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I have jerry canned Mogas, but for me it is an "urgency" only means. It is simply messy and unsafe compared to proper pumped fueling. If there is no other method to get the fuel, then you have to do it, but to plan it as an operational norm is unwise. I had to jerry can Avgas into one of my planes a few wees ago, simply because the tanks were empty from an inspection, so fuel had to be brought in, as I do not keep Avgas at home. I fly my Avgas powered aircraft for fuel. I do keep a tank of Mogas for my 150.
For my experience, transporting small amounts of Mogas (a fill up at a time) is just not worth it, if it is practically possible to fly the 'plane to fuel it. As the saying goes, "if you think safety is expensive, try an accident.". If the reason for jerry canning Mogas is cost saving, it's not worth it in the big picture. There are huge risks of fire associated with jerry canning fuel - I'm also a fire fighter, I've been to the accidents. People, who were just taking 20 liters for their lawn mower, who ended up spending months in a burn unit recovering.
A part of the cost of fuel sold at the airport, is that it is the right product for the aircraft, and it is handled and dispensed safely. The less they sell, the more the costs go up. The new owner of my local airport has spent more than a million dollars in the last year, repaving the runway and apron, installing new fuel tanks and docks for the seaplanes. SO I do my very best to buy as much fuel there as I can, just to assure that he sees interest and a return on his investment. After all, it is very convenient for me to be able to fly 20 miles, and buy Avgas, rather than installing a second tank for it at home, and keeping it full.
When I have Mogas delivered (1200 liters at a time) I always specify that it must be ethanol free, and I check it before I allow the supplier to fill my tank. So far so good. That said, He has told me that my tank, which is single walled, and in a concrete dyke, will not meet the new requirements for a double walled tank, which will come into affect in a year or so, and he'll not be allowed to fill it for me any more. Then, either I invest in a brand new double walled tank, or just buy Avgas for the 150 also at the nearby airport - we'll see...
For my experience, transporting small amounts of Mogas (a fill up at a time) is just not worth it, if it is practically possible to fly the 'plane to fuel it. As the saying goes, "if you think safety is expensive, try an accident.". If the reason for jerry canning Mogas is cost saving, it's not worth it in the big picture. There are huge risks of fire associated with jerry canning fuel - I'm also a fire fighter, I've been to the accidents. People, who were just taking 20 liters for their lawn mower, who ended up spending months in a burn unit recovering.
A part of the cost of fuel sold at the airport, is that it is the right product for the aircraft, and it is handled and dispensed safely. The less they sell, the more the costs go up. The new owner of my local airport has spent more than a million dollars in the last year, repaving the runway and apron, installing new fuel tanks and docks for the seaplanes. SO I do my very best to buy as much fuel there as I can, just to assure that he sees interest and a return on his investment. After all, it is very convenient for me to be able to fly 20 miles, and buy Avgas, rather than installing a second tank for it at home, and keeping it full.
When I have Mogas delivered (1200 liters at a time) I always specify that it must be ethanol free, and I check it before I allow the supplier to fill my tank. So far so good. That said, He has told me that my tank, which is single walled, and in a concrete dyke, will not meet the new requirements for a double walled tank, which will come into affect in a year or so, and he'll not be allowed to fill it for me any more. Then, either I invest in a brand new double walled tank, or just buy Avgas for the 150 also at the nearby airport - we'll see...
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@Step Turn: I guess the Avgas story is a different one. Do you have any issue with the airport owner when using your own tank of Mogas? I know of one certain oil company, not selling Mogas at all, being very rude when autofuel is tapped at the airfield.
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Step, here in UK we have a very large number of small aircraft running on MOGAS from small private landing fields and have done so for many years, under the guidance of rules and regulations of the CAA and guidance of the LAA. Not many are fortunate enough to have the advantage of their own bulk installation though, so jerrycans are not unusual. 
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A UK centric reply but there are several issues. Buying the stuff, transportation and storage, all separate.
Buying: Individual filling stations can choose to allow, or not, purchase of large volumes of fuel in a single transaction, which is really nothing more than straightforward consumer law. Local authorities and oil suppliers may also impose maximum permissible volumes for single purchases.
Transportation: There is a distinction made in the regulations between transportation of fuel by private individuals for their own use and that done commercially. See here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...-2015-rev2.pdf from which;
The previous version of that Guidance note also stated:
Private Storage: The regulations put upper limits of 2 x 5 litres plastic containers which have to be of an approved design, and 2 x 10 litres metal containers, which should be marked with the words “PETROLEUM SPIRIT HIGHLY FLAMMABLE”.
In Scotland, which affects me, there is also a SEPA requirement that fuel receptacles be stored in a bund or drip tray capable of containing 25% of the total receptacle volume. There may be a similar requirement in other parts of the UK.
In practice, maybe follow Crash one. (It's my business, unless I make it your business.)
Buying: Individual filling stations can choose to allow, or not, purchase of large volumes of fuel in a single transaction, which is really nothing more than straightforward consumer law. Local authorities and oil suppliers may also impose maximum permissible volumes for single purchases.
Transportation: There is a distinction made in the regulations between transportation of fuel by private individuals for their own use and that done commercially. See here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...-2015-rev2.pdf from which;
Private carriage
Nonwork related carriage by private individuals of fuels packaged for retail sale and intended for their personal or domestic use or for their leisure or sporting activities is exempt from the requirements of CDG 2009; however, measures should be taken to prevent leakage of the fuel (ADR 1.1.3.1 (a)).
Nonwork related carriage by private individuals of fuels packaged for retail sale and intended for their personal or domestic use or for their leisure or sporting activities is exempt from the requirements of CDG 2009; however, measures should be taken to prevent leakage of the fuel (ADR 1.1.3.1 (a)).
When these goods are flammable liquids carried in refillable receptacles filled by, or for, a private individual, the total quantity shall not exceed 60 litres per receptacle and 240 litres per transport unit.
In Scotland, which affects me, there is also a SEPA requirement that fuel receptacles be stored in a bund or drip tray capable of containing 25% of the total receptacle volume. There may be a similar requirement in other parts of the UK.
In practice, maybe follow Crash one. (It's my business, unless I make it your business.)
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This all depends on your personal operation.
I fly an annex 2 Permit aircraft off a farm strip, with no fuel facilities at all on site. A local bimble south requiring a fuel stop diversion 20 miles north or east first with £15 landing fee is hardly economic.
It's a risk I know, in an estate car (US station waggon) cans upright in a fitted box.
I've had the occasional leaky can that I can smell en route, but fixed as soon as possible, and I don't throw cigarette butts over my shoulder!
Never had a problem with the Continental c90 running it for ten years. So far so good!!
Chuck glider beat me to it.
I fly an annex 2 Permit aircraft off a farm strip, with no fuel facilities at all on site. A local bimble south requiring a fuel stop diversion 20 miles north or east first with £15 landing fee is hardly economic.
It's a risk I know, in an estate car (US station waggon) cans upright in a fitted box.
I've had the occasional leaky can that I can smell en route, but fixed as soon as possible, and I don't throw cigarette butts over my shoulder!
Never had a problem with the Continental c90 running it for ten years. So far so good!!
Chuck glider beat me to it.
Is a leaky can with AvGas to be preferred? 
I think _all_ leaky cans are to be avoided - those filled with precious delicious liquids (Glenfiddich, Chateau Mouton Rotschild, ...) perhaps even more.
More to the point: here in BE, most fields have an AvGas pump but MoGas pumps are rare. Microlighters have always brought their own. I know of one field where someone from the club will drive an open pick-up to the nearby filling station with 5 or 10 50-litre containers... On busy flying days, a second run is made around noon.
I think _all_ leaky cans are to be avoided - those filled with precious delicious liquids (Glenfiddich, Chateau Mouton Rotschild, ...) perhaps even more.More to the point: here in BE, most fields have an AvGas pump but MoGas pumps are rare. Microlighters have always brought their own. I know of one field where someone from the club will drive an open pick-up to the nearby filling station with 5 or 10 50-litre containers... On busy flying days, a second run is made around noon.
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The use of compliant Mogas in my O-200 has been a 100% excellent experience, for 3100 hours over 30 years, never a problem. But, I do assure that it is the right gas as per the approval - primarily, no Ethanol. Fortunately, in Canada the gasoline standards are uniform, and aside from vapour pressure variations seasonally, there's not much else to vary. Low octane Mogas has ethanol, so I do not buy it, high octane Mogas has none, so that's what I buy, and I check it. I've been told that things are not so straight forward in the US.
Ethanol fuel will run fine in aircraft engines, if you do it correctly. For several years, I was one of six pilots who flew an experimental (in the true sense of the term) C 150 on 100% ethanol. But, it was a modified aircraft and fuel system.
I got tired of the safety risk, effort and smell of transporting Mogas in jerry cans, so I bought the land, built my runway, and installed a 1300 liter gasoline tank 25 years ago. I have no issues with the airport operator. That said, I certainly know that other airport discourage dispensing for fuel on their property, which they do not control. In fairness to them, they may be required to have an emergency and fire safety plan, which would have great difficulty accounting for private gasoline dispensing. I do know of a few airports which whom arrangements have been made for private gasoline supplies - good on them!
Ethanol fuel will run fine in aircraft engines, if you do it correctly. For several years, I was one of six pilots who flew an experimental (in the true sense of the term) C 150 on 100% ethanol. But, it was a modified aircraft and fuel system.
I got tired of the safety risk, effort and smell of transporting Mogas in jerry cans, so I bought the land, built my runway, and installed a 1300 liter gasoline tank 25 years ago. I have no issues with the airport operator. That said, I certainly know that other airport discourage dispensing for fuel on their property, which they do not control. In fairness to them, they may be required to have an emergency and fire safety plan, which would have great difficulty accounting for private gasoline dispensing. I do know of a few airports which whom arrangements have been made for private gasoline supplies - good on them!
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Be aware that many petrol stations fuel tanks are contaminated with water and rust and are notorious for supplying contaminated fuel - and steel jerrycans are notorious for producing flakes of rust and paint as well.
As a result, make 100% sure, your fuel supplied from jerrycans into your aircraft is completely and thoroughly filtered through a funnel fitted with a mesh screen and a chamois.
As a result, make 100% sure, your fuel supplied from jerrycans into your aircraft is completely and thoroughly filtered through a funnel fitted with a mesh screen and a chamois.
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A story about gasoline fumes ….
About 25 years ago, the local police force was a participant in our regional “Marine Safety Day”. A grand event which drew several thousand people from all around. One of the attractions was the demonstration of a “bilge fume explosion”. To accomplish this, the demolitions division of the police obtained a derelict 28 foot wood construction enclosed cabin power boat. It was towed and moored in the otherwise closed harbour. They closed off the boat, and left a 5 liter jerry can of gasoline to evaporate all morning. A small detonator of some type was controlled by wire to shore.
My job was to operate our fireboat. I rafted up to the two police boats a safe distance back, with my crew, all geared up and ready! The police Sargent said to me: “When it blows up, don’t rush right in and put out the fire, let it get going for effect, so the crowd can see”. Fair enough, I replied, I’ll wait right here, and you tell me when to go in and extinguish the fire…”.
3, 2, 1…. Blammo! An immense fireball emanated from the boat, and the shock wave hit us (and the crowd, I presume) with a thump. I looked at the boat, as the smoke cleared, to judge the fire we were about to be asked to extinguish, and there was nothing there. The entire 28 foot boat was gone above the waterline, planks and splinters blown hundreds of feet away. I turned to the Sargent, as we both viewed the smouldering, and now sinking remaining hull, and asked: “shall we go now and put out the fire? Or, shall we let it burn for a while first?”. His return look indicated to me that they had not planned to blow the boat to bits, but rather just start a fire.
We spent all afternoon gathering up all the floating debris, all those planks with nails sticking out like angry porcupines being carry to shore across the tubes of our two Zodiac boats!
The explosive power of the vapour from a few liters of gasoline is not to be underestimated!
About 25 years ago, the local police force was a participant in our regional “Marine Safety Day”. A grand event which drew several thousand people from all around. One of the attractions was the demonstration of a “bilge fume explosion”. To accomplish this, the demolitions division of the police obtained a derelict 28 foot wood construction enclosed cabin power boat. It was towed and moored in the otherwise closed harbour. They closed off the boat, and left a 5 liter jerry can of gasoline to evaporate all morning. A small detonator of some type was controlled by wire to shore.
My job was to operate our fireboat. I rafted up to the two police boats a safe distance back, with my crew, all geared up and ready! The police Sargent said to me: “When it blows up, don’t rush right in and put out the fire, let it get going for effect, so the crowd can see”. Fair enough, I replied, I’ll wait right here, and you tell me when to go in and extinguish the fire…”.
3, 2, 1…. Blammo! An immense fireball emanated from the boat, and the shock wave hit us (and the crowd, I presume) with a thump. I looked at the boat, as the smoke cleared, to judge the fire we were about to be asked to extinguish, and there was nothing there. The entire 28 foot boat was gone above the waterline, planks and splinters blown hundreds of feet away. I turned to the Sargent, as we both viewed the smouldering, and now sinking remaining hull, and asked: “shall we go now and put out the fire? Or, shall we let it burn for a while first?”. His return look indicated to me that they had not planned to blow the boat to bits, but rather just start a fire.
We spent all afternoon gathering up all the floating debris, all those planks with nails sticking out like angry porcupines being carry to shore across the tubes of our two Zodiac boats!
The explosive power of the vapour from a few liters of gasoline is not to be underestimated!
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We ran a Contenental 0-200 on Mogas for years without any issues, then we developed a loss of power during climb out. The carburrettor had been replaced prior to the loss of power and eveything else checked out. I went flying with the pilot to see for myself. I wish I hadn't, it was very uncomfortable feeling as the engine sagged at 3-400 feet. I was very pleased when we got back on the ground. As we were short on ideas it was suggested that we dumped the fuel
(the aircraft was flown regularly so the fuel wasn't old). The problem which had occurred on each of the previous flights went away and has not returned.
We run solely on Avgas now. Relatively fuel is cheap and accidents are expensive.
(the aircraft was flown regularly so the fuel wasn't old). The problem which had occurred on each of the previous flights went away and has not returned.
We run solely on Avgas now. Relatively fuel is cheap and accidents are expensive.
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As we were short on ideas it was suggested that we dumped the fuel
In 4000 hours flying Mogas, I have never had a fuel type related event at all. O-200, O-235, O-320, O-360, O-470, O-520 all ran just fine on it - when flown in a type approved by STC.