Lack of Northwest England GA fields
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Lack of Northwest England GA fields
In a thread started here today, about flying in Cheshire, one of our highly esteemed members - SSD - coined a phrase "Cheshire is a bit of a GA desert" which got me thinking.......
I live in North Cheshire just a few minutes from EGCC Manchester Airport. In fact the PA-28 group I joined there was recently asked to leave thus ending all light aircraft activity. Shaggy's comment got me thinking - if I bought something like a Beech 36 Bonanza, I would have nowhere to fly it from within a 1 hour drive from home. Although 44 years ago I started flying at EGCB Barton (now City airport) it isn't really a suitable base for such a type thus the next nearest fields would be Liverpool or Blackpool. Chester Hawarden is even further away.....
Is it not time to call for the creation of a North Cheshire/Manchester GA field with facilities such as a 1000m hard runway with lights and GPS approaches?
Over......
I live in North Cheshire just a few minutes from EGCC Manchester Airport. In fact the PA-28 group I joined there was recently asked to leave thus ending all light aircraft activity. Shaggy's comment got me thinking - if I bought something like a Beech 36 Bonanza, I would have nowhere to fly it from within a 1 hour drive from home. Although 44 years ago I started flying at EGCB Barton (now City airport) it isn't really a suitable base for such a type thus the next nearest fields would be Liverpool or Blackpool. Chester Hawarden is even further away.....
Is it not time to call for the creation of a North Cheshire/Manchester GA field with facilities such as a 1000m hard runway with lights and GPS approaches?
Over......
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The lost opportunity for a NW GA airfield (such as the SE's Biggin or The Bush) was of course Woodford. It was worth more as house building land than as an airfield so that's what happened. A valuable piece of aviation infrastructure which would cost millions to build was destroyed for housing.
But surely, Biggin and The Bush are worth more as development land than as airfields? Yet they prosper. Whoever owns those large tracts of land doesn't sell out to developers.
Is it that the planners in NW are vision-less or in the palm of the developers while planners in SE are not? If that's not the reason, what is?
But surely, Biggin and The Bush are worth more as development land than as airfields? Yet they prosper. Whoever owns those large tracts of land doesn't sell out to developers.
Is it that the planners in NW are vision-less or in the palm of the developers while planners in SE are not? If that's not the reason, what is?
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Such as Woodford? Or Stretton? Wouldn't take much... Shame we live in such a backwards country where GA isn't encouraged, but people get excited about "flying cars" and other such crap. When GA airfields close to centres of commerce would be a much better idea - and we're not a million miles off. But it's certainly a crime around the Manchester area - that EGCC don't want to know, and Barton is a swamp. 
Is it not time to call for the creation of a North Cheshire/Manchester GA field with facilities such as a 1000m hard runway with lights and GPS approaches?
I'm not disagreeing about the lack of facilities in that neck of the woods, but is the solution not for those who want a facility, to get together and make things happen? Say, do a deal with a farmer who owns a large disused airfield and start to get facilities on site?
G
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Genghis, I suspect that if planning permission for housing development on the Woodford airfield site had not been forthcoming, and the local authority had insisted on no change of use from being an airfield, what you suggest would have happened.
I suspect (I really don't know) that this is how the likes of Biggin don't become housing estates.
It would not be financially viable for any aviation interest to outbid housing developers, buy somewhere like Woodford, and operate it as a GA facility. Land in even a semi urban environment will always be worth many, many times more as a housing development site than as home to an aviation business if it has planning permission for housing.
I suspect (I really don't know) that this is how the likes of Biggin don't become housing estates.
It would not be financially viable for any aviation interest to outbid housing developers, buy somewhere like Woodford, and operate it as a GA facility. Land in even a semi urban environment will always be worth many, many times more as a housing development site than as home to an aviation business if it has planning permission for housing.
Thread Starter
a large disused airfield
do a deal with a farmer
As he is worth around £150 million and paid a reported £2 million for the airfield I'm not certain we could club together and make an offer
I was hoping for a groundswell of opinion to maybe approach Greater Manchester for help as Peel holdings are moving very slowly at Barton...
Outbid housing developers no - show a slightly more profitable use for a strip across farmland - maybe. I belong to a very successful flying club at the other end of the country (on a farm, on the site of an old wartime airfield) run on exactly that basis, and I can think of a few others.
G
G
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RNAS Burscough
There is also RNAS Burscough that is disused and still has a runway, this airfield is owned by a local farmer who still uses a couple of the old hangars for his farm equipment.
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£2m for an airfield - and GA couldn't afford that.
Well, in that case, GA is doomed.
Simple. In real terms, £2m is nothing.
From my personal experience, a decent quality farm shed - 100ft x 100ft - with all the bells and whistles the local authority will want such as disabled toilets, will cost at leat 250k.
Then the fire hydrant! We have just spent the best part of £25k putting one in at Strathaven, all the pipe had to be barrier pipe at £20 a metre because we were a high risk of contamination!
Want to put down concrete for taxiways etc. You are talking around £40-£50 a square metre. Yes, you can lay a couple of cubes with a mixer, but we are talking serious amounts of concrete is you are starting an airfield on farmland.
Did I mention the planning consultant, the building engineers, the draughtsman, the land surveyor, the soil analysis...........
And that (and to be fair, the £2m) is only the start. Try building a decent clubhouse rather than a portable cabin: that will be £2,000-£2,500 a square metre.
And then bring in enough cash to pay for maintenance, management and staff - as well as finance any debt! Or return on capital!
Well, in that case, GA is doomed.
Simple. In real terms, £2m is nothing.
From my personal experience, a decent quality farm shed - 100ft x 100ft - with all the bells and whistles the local authority will want such as disabled toilets, will cost at leat 250k.
Then the fire hydrant! We have just spent the best part of £25k putting one in at Strathaven, all the pipe had to be barrier pipe at £20 a metre because we were a high risk of contamination!
Want to put down concrete for taxiways etc. You are talking around £40-£50 a square metre. Yes, you can lay a couple of cubes with a mixer, but we are talking serious amounts of concrete is you are starting an airfield on farmland.
Did I mention the planning consultant, the building engineers, the draughtsman, the land surveyor, the soil analysis...........
And that (and to be fair, the £2m) is only the start. Try building a decent clubhouse rather than a portable cabin: that will be £2,000-£2,500 a square metre.
And then bring in enough cash to pay for maintenance, management and staff - as well as finance any debt! Or return on capital!
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Well of course at Woodford all that an more was in place. Many millions of pounds worth of aviation infrastructure. It has all just been smashed up or demolished, and removed for hard core.
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Either way, as others have stated, the startup costs would probably be astronomical, and the likely revenues somewhat lacking.
Still, if you think you can do it, good luck.
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Surely Blackpool would fit the bill ? It certainly needs the support - I'm sure it was recently under threat ?
The former RAF Poulton is an impressive sight from the air, but perhaps Hawarden wouldn't be impressed, quite apart from what the current owner might have to say !
GA is a mess in the NW though. Barton are always doing work to avoid the place flooding with some success, but it is frustrating when the weather is CAVOK but the field is shut !
As has been said before - Woodford, a criminal waste..
The former RAF Poulton is an impressive sight from the air, but perhaps Hawarden wouldn't be impressed, quite apart from what the current owner might have to say !
GA is a mess in the NW though. Barton are always doing work to avoid the place flooding with some success, but it is frustrating when the weather is CAVOK but the field is shut !
As has been said before - Woodford, a criminal waste..
RAF Woodvale is only just up the road and still active though, maybe they could be persuaded to allow GA (if they don't already, there's certainly a flying school there). Merseyside Police chopper was there too until someone broke in and set fire to it.....
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Not much left of the runway now, mostly used for a car boot sale. Also a lot of building around it (new shopping centre etc).
RAF Woodvale is only just up the road and still active though, maybe they could be persuaded to allow GA (if they don't already, there's certainly a flying school there). Merseyside Police chopper was there too until someone broke in and set fire to it.....
RAF Woodvale is only just up the road and still active though, maybe they could be persuaded to allow GA (if they don't already, there's certainly a flying school there). Merseyside Police chopper was there too until someone broke in and set fire to it.....
For GA Woodvale is a dead duck; there is certainly no flying school but a private hangar that due to RAF rules only allows a maximum of 12 aircraft to be based there and doesn't allow training or any commercial activity, so its near on impossible to get a hangar space as any that do arise are offered to other syndicate members within the hangar first.
Thread Starter
hobbit1983
We've already got that - EGCB Barton City Airport. It beggars belief that a conurbation of over 1 million people doesn't have a "Biggin Hill" to service the needs of business aviation in the year 2017.
PS Just scrapped the idea of buying a Bonanza - so where the heck am I going to keep my PC12?
Wouldn't it be far easier, although probably not profitable, to go the Compton Abbas route; 800m or so of grass, with a clubhouse and hangers?
PS Just scrapped the idea of buying a Bonanza - so where the heck am I going to keep my PC12?
If you live on the east of Manchester, maybe you should try Huddersfield International Airfield.
They haven't half got a good runway, and their Terminal Block has all the usual facilities, as long as you remember to bring some water for tea making and flushing of the toilets.
btw... Wherever you choose these days, because of licensing rules for airfields, even ex WW2 runways of 3km are being designated as 799m long.
So don't buy an airplane that requires 1000m.
.
They haven't half got a good runway, and their Terminal Block has all the usual facilities, as long as you remember to bring some water for tea making and flushing of the toilets.
btw... Wherever you choose these days, because of licensing rules for airfields, even ex WW2 runways of 3km are being designated as 799m long.
So don't buy an airplane that requires 1000m.
.
Last edited by scifi; 31st Dec 2016 at 14:09.