Maurice Kirk is in Africa
Just a reminder about this man quitting the rally - dated 22 Nov on Facebook ( my Bold). Note all this was before he force landed in South Sudan: an event which was therefore unarguably beyond the control or responsibility of the VAR organisers.
Africa is a big boy's continent in which you play silly one man egotistical games at your peril.
UPDATE (22 Nov)
Vintage Air Rally participant Maurice Kirk, with his 1943 Piper Cub aeroplane, has not arrived at his expected destination, Gambella, Ethiopia.
Contrary to our advice to return to Khartoum, Mr. Kirk, 72, departed Ad-Damazin, Sudan at approximately 1400 local time (1100 GMT) on the +/- 3 hour flight to Gambella. No radio communications or satellite tracking were received at any time during the flight, and his location is unknown. Mr. Kirk is a very experienced pilot, and so it is believed that he has made a precautionary landing before sunset, somewhere in Ethiopia. The Ethiopian authorities, and his family, have been informed and search and rescue procedures will begin at first light.
PREVIOUS
The VintageAirRally committee announces with regret that Maurice Kirk has had to withdraw from the Rally. This decision was taken due to a mismatch in expectations between the organisers and the participant.
We wish Maurice a safe return to Khartoum and onwards back home.
So, indeed, continually trying to retrospectively implicate the VAR organizers in this man's posturing over his self-inflicted situation is surely irrelevant to this thread.
Africa is a big boy's continent in which you play silly one man egotistical games at your peril.
UPDATE (22 Nov)
Vintage Air Rally participant Maurice Kirk, with his 1943 Piper Cub aeroplane, has not arrived at his expected destination, Gambella, Ethiopia.
Contrary to our advice to return to Khartoum, Mr. Kirk, 72, departed Ad-Damazin, Sudan at approximately 1400 local time (1100 GMT) on the +/- 3 hour flight to Gambella. No radio communications or satellite tracking were received at any time during the flight, and his location is unknown. Mr. Kirk is a very experienced pilot, and so it is believed that he has made a precautionary landing before sunset, somewhere in Ethiopia. The Ethiopian authorities, and his family, have been informed and search and rescue procedures will begin at first light.
PREVIOUS
The VintageAirRally committee announces with regret that Maurice Kirk has had to withdraw from the Rally. This decision was taken due to a mismatch in expectations between the organisers and the participant.
We wish Maurice a safe return to Khartoum and onwards back home.
So, indeed, continually trying to retrospectively implicate the VAR organizers in this man's posturing over his self-inflicted situation is surely irrelevant to this thread.
Last edited by Haraka; 13th Dec 2016 at 10:42.
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Quote : Above the clouds
"This latest picture is interesting because I posted the picture below last week and was categorically told by 'Jetblu' that the aircraft in it was not Maurice Kirks."
Whilst I accept that I initially had great doubts about the image that originally surfaced on another forum, later the same day, here on this forum, I clarified that the said image could be genuine.
I have gone back to copy and paste my posting but it has since been deleted.
I believe seat 1A is a smoking seat :-)
We need to get the right medical assistance to Maurice. When in Rome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YmsrzF4KdQ
"This latest picture is interesting because I posted the picture below last week and was categorically told by 'Jetblu' that the aircraft in it was not Maurice Kirks."
Whilst I accept that I initially had great doubts about the image that originally surfaced on another forum, later the same day, here on this forum, I clarified that the said image could be genuine.
I have gone back to copy and paste my posting but it has since been deleted.
We need to get the right medical assistance to Maurice. When in Rome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YmsrzF4KdQ
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Jonzarno
Surely also what sort of insurance is held by MK or the organisers for the participants ?
He had a septic leg as well as Malaria so regardless of the rest what cover is there for illness ?
Surely also what sort of insurance is held by MK or the organisers for the participants ?
He had a septic leg as well as Malaria so regardless of the rest what cover is there for illness ?
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Pace
Yes, you're right: but that only comes into play once liability has been determined.
There are two aspects to this:
1. Who is liable for the curtailment of MK's involvement in the rally assuming that that is due to the "mismatch of expectations" discussed earlier? As I see it, that's a simple contractual issue as suggested in my earlier post.
2. Does MK have insurance to cover his health issues and, if so, what if anything does it cover beyond immediate treatment and / or repatriation?
These look to be quite separate issues because MK seems to have "left" the rally before he was injured.
Whatever the legalities, though, I just hope he makes it out OK.
Yes, you're right: but that only comes into play once liability has been determined.
There are two aspects to this:
1. Who is liable for the curtailment of MK's involvement in the rally assuming that that is due to the "mismatch of expectations" discussed earlier? As I see it, that's a simple contractual issue as suggested in my earlier post.
2. Does MK have insurance to cover his health issues and, if so, what if anything does it cover beyond immediate treatment and / or repatriation?
These look to be quite separate issues because MK seems to have "left" the rally before he was injured.
Whatever the legalities, though, I just hope he makes it out OK.
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Pace
Yes, you're right: but that only comes into play once liability has been determined.
There are two aspects to this:
1. Who is liable for the curtailment of MK's involvement in the rally assuming that that is due to the "mismatch of expectations" discussed earlier? As I see it, that's a simple contractual issue as suggested in my earlier post.
2. Does MK have insurance to cover his health issues and, if so, what if anything does it cover beyond immediate treatment and / or repatriation?
These look to be quite separate issues because MK seems to have "left" the rally before he was injured.
Whatever the legalities, though, I just hope he makes it out OK.
Yes, you're right: but that only comes into play once liability has been determined.
There are two aspects to this:
1. Who is liable for the curtailment of MK's involvement in the rally assuming that that is due to the "mismatch of expectations" discussed earlier? As I see it, that's a simple contractual issue as suggested in my earlier post.
2. Does MK have insurance to cover his health issues and, if so, what if anything does it cover beyond immediate treatment and / or repatriation?
These look to be quite separate issues because MK seems to have "left" the rally before he was injured.
Whatever the legalities, though, I just hope he makes it out OK.
I tried hard to help him when he first "landed" in S Sudan, by seeking the assistace of some well placed contacts, and we all gave him the same advice. Alas he is still in Juba expecting the receipt of spare parts in order to put a badly(?) damaged Cub back in the air, which seemingly was not very serviceable in the first instance! I haven't a clue how the LAA or the CAA might view the aircraft issues.
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Yes.
I guess that either he is on top of a very difficult situation and is dealing with it in the face of all problems; or he has seriously underestimated the challenge he faces and is potentially in real trouble. Let's all hope it is the former!
IMHO he owes all of those who have tried to help him a lot of thanks. I hope he sees it that way as well!
I guess that either he is on top of a very difficult situation and is dealing with it in the face of all problems; or he has seriously underestimated the challenge he faces and is potentially in real trouble. Let's all hope it is the former!
IMHO he owes all of those who have tried to help him a lot of thanks. I hope he sees it that way as well!
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Alas he is still in Juba expecting the receipt of spare parts in order to put a badly(?) damaged Cub back in the air,
One of the many responsibilities of a pilot is to assure that the aircraft he will fly is airworthy. There can be some "give" in this for a ferry flight for maintenance, but otherwise airworthy = conforming to it's type design, and fit and safe for flight. In addition to propeller replacement, engine inspection and landing gear repair, there is obvious primary structure damage, which will require removal of fabric to inspect and repair - that's much more than just "spare parts".
Hundreds of posts in PPRuNe will demonstrate that pilots flying unairworthy aircraft is thought of poorly by the group as a whole - this should not be viewed differently. Just because Mr. Kirk is perhaps something of a non conformist fellow should not confer upon him an exemption for doing things properly.
As I had said, if he has an emotional attachment to that Cub, and values it such that a disproportionate investment in its recovery is his choice, so be it, but that's a choice he makes. His decision to make that choice does not exempt him from doing things properly.
I have known pilots who have flown out aircraft damaged much less than that one, and the authority took a serious interest in the flight(s). Questions were asked, violations made against the pilot. Mr. Kirk knows how to conduct himself properly, there's a lot of publicity on this now, authorities are watching.....
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I wonder if Maurice has reported his air accident in G-KURK to the AAIB? Also I can't find a AAIB report for G-KIRK which crashed into to sea although G-KIRK has had registration cancelled.
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Maurice has just posted this on Facebook, and appears to be airborne in a twin from the photos!
Maurice is on the move (with a limp still) for the cub! .....Fly her out or dismantle?,,,,Decision when there at Narius.....URGENTLY need help to get UK cub spares from Nairobi airport handing to Lokichoggio, on northern border, if any one in Kenya is reading this?....Kevin, US, we are in business, again.,,,,thanks, aLL, for everything.....V
Maurice is on the move (with a limp still) for the cub! .....Fly her out or dismantle?,,,,Decision when there at Narius.....URGENTLY need help to get UK cub spares from Nairobi airport handing to Lokichoggio, on northern border, if any one in Kenya is reading this?....Kevin, US, we are in business, again.,,,,thanks, aLL, for everything.....V
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Hundreds of posts in PPRuNe will demonstrate that pilots flying unairworthy aircraft is thought of poorly by the group as a whole - this should not be viewed differently. Just because Mr. Kirk is perhaps something of a non conformist fellow should not confer upon him an exemption for doing things properly.
I have known pilots who have flown out aircraft damaged much less than that one, and the authority took a serious interest in the flight(s). Questions were asked, violations made against the pilot. Mr. Kirk knows how to conduct himself properly, there's a lot of publicity on this now, authorities are watching.....
Step, I'm unsure if you have flown in Africa or have any African experience but in the real world, it goes like this...
Airstrips can be hundreds of miles away from habitat or engineering services. An aircraft lands and it may get bent. Depending upon how bad the damage is, and if within the pilots capabilities, it will get a repair enough to get her airborne and out. I have seen damaged props from a ground strike being bent back into shape and I have also seen daylight through a Cessna 303 starboard wing where the undercarriage punched up through the skin. It flew out.
'If' MK does miraculously manage to get this girl flying out of there, we should all applaud him. Can you imagine the headlines "Solo/alone British pensioner providing inspirational speeches via social media on the UK's corrupt legal system from war-torn areas reaches for the sky once again"
Now this really is an 'outreach' programme, isn't it.
Maurice has just posted this on Facebook, and appears to be airborne in a twin from the photos!
Maurice is on the move (with a limp still) for the cub! .....Fly her out or dismantle?,,,,Decision when there at Narius.....URGENTLY need help to get UK cub spares from Nairobi airport handing to Lokichoggio, on northern border, if any one in Kenya is reading this?....Kevin, US, we are in business, again.,,,,thanks, aLL, for everything.....V
Maurice is on the move (with a limp still) for the cub! .....Fly her out or dismantle?,,,,Decision when there at Narius.....URGENTLY need help to get UK cub spares from Nairobi airport handing to Lokichoggio, on northern border, if any one in Kenya is reading this?....Kevin, US, we are in business, again.,,,,thanks, aLL, for everything.....V
Yes, I saw that Terry.
I wonder if Mixed Up is still about. [my bold]
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Maurice has just posted this on Facebook, and appears to be airborne in a twin from the photos!
Maurice is on the move (with a limp still) for the cub! .....Fly her out or dismantle?,,,,Decision when there at Narius.....URGENTLY need help to get UK cub spares from Nairobi airport handing to Lokichoggio, on northern border, if any one in Kenya is reading this?....Kevin, US, we are in business, again.,,,,thanks, aLL, for everything.....V
Maurice is on the move (with a limp still) for the cub! .....Fly her out or dismantle?,,,,Decision when there at Narius.....URGENTLY need help to get UK cub spares from Nairobi airport handing to Lokichoggio, on northern border, if any one in Kenya is reading this?....Kevin, US, we are in business, again.,,,,thanks, aLL, for everything.....V
I think that is a Cessna 208 Caravan that Maurice is getting flown in ;-)
Good to see him on the move again.
Maurice was under no obligation to notify the AAIB of his Dunking of G-KIRK as it didn't occur in the UK, a UK Overseas Territory or a Crown Dependency.
Maurice is under no obligation to notify the AAIB of his Incorrect Landing incident in G-KURK as it didn't occur in the UK, a UK Overseas Territory or a Crown Dependency.
See AAIB Guidelines below:
Who must report an aircraft accident or serious incident
The following people must notify the AAIB without delay if they have knowledge of an aircraft accident or serious incident which occurred in the UK, a UK Overseas Territory or a Crown Dependency:
- the crew of the aircraft
- the owner of the aircraft
- the operator of the aircraft
- people involved in the maintenance, design or manufacture of the aircraft
- people involved in the training of the aircraft’s crew
- people involved in providing air traffic control, flight information services or aerodrome services to the aircraft
- staff of the Civil Aviation Authority
- staff of the European Aviation Safety Agency
Jetblu,
I am not sure I agree with qv, " 'If' MK does miraculously manage to get this girl flying out of there, we should all applaud him."
If Maurice manages to fly G-KURK out of there, I think it will just confirm that he is playing Russian Roulette with his life yet again.
I have a lot of time for Maurice ( Probably too much time ) I applaud everyone who is 'purported' to be helping him, now I think we are all looking at a Double edged Sword here..... If the Prop & LH Undercarriage section do arrive I fear Maurice will just fit them & if the Cub looks flyable ( in his opinion), he will try to fly it away.
The Scenario of all this is : Both Wings have cantilevered forwards and I doubt the structural integrity is still in those wings.
I am inclined to agree that if anyone can Fly it away, that person is Maurice....that said " I wish he would wise up & cut his losses "
His head is currently in the wrong place, this is a major recovery process & not one that will be rectified by bolting on a Prop & Undercarriage leg.
My Engineering skills are limited to minimal chores, but my Highly regarded Aircraft Engineers have looked at the Damage photo & have said that Cub is FUBAR
( fudged up beyond all recognition ).
Lets hope something positive comes from all this !! I am glad Maurice is on the move again.
A National Embarrassment? - probably closer to the truth.
PDR
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Yes, Jetblu, I flew as second pilot (though happily mostly left seat) Rotterdam to Maseru in a Twin Otter years back, so I have an idea about flying in Africa. I did much of the flight planning, and local negotiations for fuel, parking, and getting our bags to the hotel.
I am also extremely experienced in getting damaged planes back to civilization, as in Canada, when you crash a plane, it is required that the wreckage be removed (no littering), so I have ferried out, or carried out a number of planes which had been damaged in remote areas - usually floatplanes with water landing damage. When I have ferried damaged planes out, I have usually had the advantage of fellow pilots flying nearby as I do it, and many landing choices along the way if things change for the worse. We used to recover aircraft for their scrap value, with the insurance company paying us to go in and clean up the mess, and keep the scrap. Otherwise they would receive a bigger bill from the government doing it for them.
Judging from the photo, that Cub is not safe to be ferry flown anywhere. Unlike Canada, I expect that if Mr. Kirk simply abandons it where it is, no one will care. I suspect that if he attempts to fly it, he will do so with much too little support to be safe.
As unkind a thing as it is to state, Mr. Kirk will be most safe, if he returns to his Cub to find it stripped to a skeleton. He can then go home safely, knowing that he had done his best against insurmountable odds.
I am also extremely experienced in getting damaged planes back to civilization, as in Canada, when you crash a plane, it is required that the wreckage be removed (no littering), so I have ferried out, or carried out a number of planes which had been damaged in remote areas - usually floatplanes with water landing damage. When I have ferried damaged planes out, I have usually had the advantage of fellow pilots flying nearby as I do it, and many landing choices along the way if things change for the worse. We used to recover aircraft for their scrap value, with the insurance company paying us to go in and clean up the mess, and keep the scrap. Otherwise they would receive a bigger bill from the government doing it for them.
Judging from the photo, that Cub is not safe to be ferry flown anywhere. Unlike Canada, I expect that if Mr. Kirk simply abandons it where it is, no one will care. I suspect that if he attempts to fly it, he will do so with much too little support to be safe.
As unkind a thing as it is to state, Mr. Kirk will be most safe, if he returns to his Cub to find it stripped to a skeleton. He can then go home safely, knowing that he had done his best against insurmountable odds.
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Nah. We have members of parliament that see to that task.
FERRYAIR.
You are probably right. Whilst I wish Maurice all the luck in the world, I'm hoping that he wouldn't play Russian Roulette with his own life.
He did say that he may have to dismantle. So he is clearly conditioned that this may be the case.
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Maurice was under no obligation to notify the AAIB of his Dunking of G-KIRK as it didn't occur in the UK, a UK Overseas Territory or a Crown Dependency.
Maurice is under no obligation to notify the AAIB of his Incorrect Landing incident in G-KURK as it didn't occur in the UK, a UK Overseas Territory or a Crown Dependency.
Maurice is under no obligation to notify the AAIB of his Incorrect Landing incident in G-KURK as it didn't occur in the UK, a UK Overseas Territory or a Crown Dependency.
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Jetblu
I over copied as I meant to refer to G-KURK
Interestingly it would appear that the accident to G-KIRK should have been notified to the AAIB as the state of registration where an accident occurs outside a state.
Annex 13 provides:
5.3 When the location of the accident or the serious incident cannot definitely be established as being in the territory of any State, the State of Registry shall institute and conduct any necessary investigation of the accident or serious incident. However, it may delegate the whole or any part of the investigation to another State by mutual
arrangement and consent.
5.3.1 States nearest the scene of an accident in international waters shall provide such assistance as they are able and shall, likewise, respond to requests by the State of Registry.
I over copied as I meant to refer to G-KURK
Interestingly it would appear that the accident to G-KIRK should have been notified to the AAIB as the state of registration where an accident occurs outside a state.
Annex 13 provides:
5.3 When the location of the accident or the serious incident cannot definitely be established as being in the territory of any State, the State of Registry shall institute and conduct any necessary investigation of the accident or serious incident. However, it may delegate the whole or any part of the investigation to another State by mutual
arrangement and consent.
5.3.1 States nearest the scene of an accident in international waters shall provide such assistance as they are able and shall, likewise, respond to requests by the State of Registry.
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Posted by someone on MK's facebook page a couple of hours:
“Whoever sent the spare parts, they've been received and cleared in Nairobi. I just got the message that the plane and presumably Maurice, have reached the Kenyan border. He should be in contact sometime today.”