Practice your emergencies regularly!

[rusty sparrow]

Re Mary Meagher '1. LOWER THE NOSE'. My several hundred winch flights years ago instilled that reflex in me which was very useful when the engine failed in a Jodel D9, a small aircraft with little inertia. Also, the feel of the glider at a flyable airspeed - you're spending all the time looking outside when a cable breaks. Flying by the feel, not the numbers.

[mary meagher]

Thank you, Rusty Sparrow! I'm afraid our American Cousins don't have very many nearby winch gliding clubs, clearly your winch experience was helpful when the Jodel engine failed. British power pilots, contact the British Gliding Association to find the winch launch club near you...you will be pleasantly surprised at the relatively low cost of this experience. And you will be a safer pilot, guaranteed.

And Sparrow, your point about looking outside...alas, most power pilots are more entranced by the array of instruments on the panel. I was very surprised flying a Warrior, when nearly meeting opposing traffic in the US. I saw him, he never saw me at all, and probably just as well, as I dived away just in time - before that I was talking to my passenger, and the other plane was hiding behind the doorpost. Surprise!

[Gertrude the Wombat]

British power pilots, contact the British Gliding Association to find the winch launch club near you...you will be pleasantly surprised at the relatively low cost of this experience.

My very limited experience - some of us from a power club visited a gliding club for an evening - is that that there was no "relatively low cost". We spent an entire evening at the field - interesting in itself, and fine on the occasion as I had nothing else to do that night - in order to spend just a few minutes in the air at a cost per minute that was not noticeably different to powered flying.

...alas, most power pilots are more entranced by the array of instruments on the panel

Ah well, at least for my few minutes in a glider I was actually looking out of the window - I never even noticed whether it had anything much in the way of instruments (apart from the piece of wool)!

[Big Pistons Forever]

The best way to deal with an engine failure is to not have the engine fail in the first place. Around 80 % of engine failures in light single engine aircraft are caused by the actions or inactions of the pilot.

It is the boring unsexy cockpit and flight disciplines of a good pilot that will likely prevent the requirement to do the hero aviating.....

With respect to the EFATO, yes, nose down immediately has to be the automatic response. I get my students to call out the immediate action drills for engine failure before every takeoff. This always started with
"stick forward" and I wanted the student to physically move the wheel/stick forward to build that automatic muscle memory.

With respect the turn back....well AOPA did a review of EFATO fatals and determined that you were 8 times more likely to have fataliies if the aircraft was turned back to the runway below 1000 feet AGL, over taking your lumps straight ahead

[9 lives]

Since my first post, I have come to understand the cause of the engine failure my friends suffered. The details are not mine to discuss, other than to say it was entirely not pilot caused. So, they were two skilled pilots suddenly in a difficult position not of their making. For whatever reason (I have not spoken with them yet) they did not make the best of a forced landing opportunity which lay ahead of them. I know that airport well, and I am confident that I could put that plane onto a nearby field, more or less ahead, possibly with little damage, but confidently with no injuries - as long as I followed my practiced skills.

That said, in general, I do agree with BPF, avoid causing your own engine failure with prior application of your skill and planning!

I'm not a fan of the turnback. I have personally assisted in lifting the remains of two friends of mine who have both attempted very tight turns back onto the same runway at my local airport. They were both more experienced pilots than I. If they could not accomplish the maneuver, I should not attempt it - they taught me a memorable lesson.

So I practice PFL's to the surface, both land and water, regularly in most of the aircraft I fly.

[piperboy84]

The Ancient Geek

Another tip - if you have a VP prop pull the blue knob all the way out to extend the glide and then use it as a nice controllable airbrake as you approach your chosen landing spot.

I may be wrong on this and please correct me if I am, but wouldn't a VP prop be "off the governor" in an EFATO situation and be forced into a fully fine pitch due to both lack of oil pressure and centrifugal force so attempting to move it to a course pitch for better glide performance would not be an available option?

[The Ancient Geek]

It depends. In most cases the prop will be windmilling and driving the engine so there will be oil pressure. Try it by pulling the mixture, it makes a big difference to your glide range.
OTOH if the engine has suffered catastrophic damage such a a broken crank all bets are off, it might be jammed solid or have lost its oil.

[londonblue]

Out of interest, whilst on a flight are you able/allowed to practice, for example, a forced landing? If you are, how do you do this safely? Do you have to tell ATC what you're doing? Do you actually declare a "practice pan"?

I'm fully aware that I need to practice these more, but am never sure about the practicalities.

[oggers]

I may be wrong on this and please correct me if I am, but wouldn't a VP prop be "off the governor" in an EFATO situation and be forced into a fully fine pitch due to both lack of oil pressure

Other way round. Oil pressure = fine, spring pressure = coarse. Otherwise it wouldn't feather after eng fail. Though I think there are exceptions to this general rule.

[The Ancient Geek]

The prop governor does not know what is turning the engine, it only knows that the revs are dropping so it fines the pitch to keep the revs constant. By pulling the pitch lever you reduce the rpm demand and feather the prop but it can never fully feather because the only source of rpm is the windmilling prop.
A fully feathering prop as fitted to bigger twins has a special oil pressure reservoir to drive the prop to the fully feathered zero rpm position.

[9 lives]

Different CS props have different operating characteristics, and the pilot should have some awareness. In short, if the prop/engine are still turning (powered or windmilling), the pilot should expect to have control of RPM, and may (and should) select full coarse/low RPM if a power off forced landing is committed.

The only reason to not select coarse pitch, would be if the pilot wants the drag of the fine pitch windmilling prop to assist in a steep descent into the "spot". In that case, the pilot should have practiced how the plane glides and flares that way.

I have recently changed propellers, and the new one is much more draggy than the one I replaced. I have experimented with glides in coarse, and doing that makes a great difference in how the plane handles in a glide. In coarse, I "get back" about 600 FPM descent rate compared to fine pitch. While experimenting, I did move the mixture to ICO, and mags off, no change in propeller operation. I was still flying a "turning" engine though - seized would be a different story.

Note that some feathering propellers cannot be feathered at RPM slower than around 1000. This means that if you're going to feather it, get it done before the engine coasts to a stop. Some feathering propeller systems have unfeathering accumulators to provide the oil pressure required to move the blades toward fine pitch for an inflight restart. Starting a feathered engine in flight is messy.

whilst on a flight are you able/allowed to practice, for example, a forced landing? If you are, how do you do this safely? Do you have to tell ATC what you're doing?

As often as air traffic seems to permit, ask ATC if you can fly a circuit which will include a practice forced approach. Otherwise, fly to a quite, uncontrolled airport where you have some circuit and runway to yourself. Then keep a close listen for other traffic arriving while you are focused on your practice!

[sunday driver]

H'm
Well, practice - of course
But
EFATO is a crisis.
Now I have been involved in quite a number of crises (none EFATO) and they all have one thing in common.
The critical thing about a crisis is spotting at the earliest possible moment that THIS IS A CRISIS!
So
This IS a crisis - doesn't matter if it's the Sudden Deathly Hush, the oil spattered windscreen or just a cough - it's a crisis.
All this wobbly prop stuff is fine, but THIS IS A CRISIS.
Don't P@@s around thinking this or that.
Just do it! Nose down, best glide, space ahead, land, stop, getout, breathe.
It's easier to explain that the nice aeroplane and you are in pristine condition sitting in an adjacent field than it is to ... well add your own scenario.
It's just too easy to pretend that things are going to get better - well maybe they might have, but then again maybe not.
I prefer to bank on certain, positive action, not on uncertain maybes.

Yours
An aviation simpleton
SD

[mary meagher]

A one day winch launch course - 6 launches...

that should do it for most of you intrepid birdmen. At Shenington, my club, that would set you back £125 for 6 launches, including the instructor. You should mention you already fly in power, and basically want the actual experience of dealing with failed launches right down to the grass....have fun!

Come on your own, best without family or friends, so you can concentrate. And yes, you will have to push gliders out of the hangar, tow them to the launchpoint, help the other chaps on the course, and all that. It is actually more sociable than power flying, but it will take a day of your life, so bring a packed lunch.

Tell them Mary sent you!

[Maoraigh1]

10/9/61 3 winch launches, 1 cable break. 8/10/61. 3 winch launches, 1 cable break. Record after that lost. I hope the reaction is still there. Last winch launch December 1962.
I'm not a turn back fan, but I'd NOT land STRAIGHT ahead if an acceptable turn would avoid hitting something.

[londonblue]

As often as air traffic seems to permit, ask ATC if you can fly a circuit which will include a practice forced approach. Otherwise, fly to a quite, uncontrolled airport where you have some circuit and runway to yourself. Then keep a close listen for other traffic arriving while you are focused on your practice!

Maybe I should have made myself clear. I'm talking about actually practicing landing in a field (without actually landing of course) en-route somewhere, not executing a glide approach.

[9 lives]

I'm talking about actually practicing landing in a field (without actually landing of course)

Here in lies the point of my post. To have the benefit of practicing a power off approach and landing, you have to land. Getting to within 200 feet AGL of the ground and powering away saying that you could have completed a landing is only a part of the training, and not the most valuable part. For the time when the engine has actually stopped, things may be different, so lots of practice is your friend then.

Flying the "best glide" speed accurately to short final is a demonstration of precision on your part, but may not set you up for your most successful landing. "Best glide" speed is the speed which provides the greatest distance per altitude lost (I'm sure the the sailplane pilots in the group can comment this better than I). Flying that slow speed will not give you the best excess to out maneuver wires seen late, or stretch 50 feet over a fence. Your practice may show you that carrying extra speed on the final 200 feet, to the flare provides you extra flexibility in your landing, and is easily slipped off if not needed.

If you happen to have a large airport, quiet at the time you are there, ask for a EFATO practice, and pull the power on yourself a hundred feet up. BUT CAUTION! Set yourself up well, with some extra speed before hand, until you get use to the maneuver! Climbing out with some flap extended, at Vx, and chopping the power at 100 feet, is a certain recipe for a very hard landing. The most scary flying I have ever flown was slower Vx EFATO testing in a Cessna Grand Caravan from 50 feet - I thought I was going to wreck it for sure. The testing requirement of 80 KIAS rather than Cessna's 87KIAS climb speed made all the difference, and the EFATO at 50 feet requirement (safe landing) could no longer be met.

When I mentor PFA's, every one will be set up for an actual landing (could be touch and go) to the surface. To assure that I could complete the PFA I have set up, I will always set it up so a slip is probably needed to get in nicely. If I'm going to do a power off landing, I'm not going on an un-necessary cross country, if there is a suitable field below me, that's where I'm going.

[Crash one]

Originally Posted by londonblue

Maybe I should have made myself clear. I'm talking about actually practicing landing in a field (without actually landing of course) en-route somewhere, not executing a glide approach.

This is the problem in the UK. (Without actually landing ""of course"".)
The fear of being accused of cowboy actions, "must remember to point out that I won't be doing anything silly like actually touching the ground off airfield".
As a result practice is only carried out down to a low flying stage, no use to anyone.
Flying instructors who have never landed on grass.
Won't do PFLs below 500ft quoting rule 5 etc.
This establishes the mindset of the pilot.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

As a result practice is only carried out down to a low flying stage, no use to anyone.

For a PFL (not EFATO) that's what I was taught ... followed by the instructor pulling the power at high key over the airfield, when I was expected to make it to the runway, to demonstrate that I could do the last few hundred feet as well.

[9 lives]

(Without actually landing ""of course"".)

Of course... it's an incomplete exercise. It was not a full PFL if you did not L. The L is the important part, as it is the evidence that you set everything up correctly.

As you enter the flare, your correct speed and height over the fence will be the evidence that your approach was well judged. An error in that judgement will afford the opportunity to attempt a correction, like a forward slip. You might slip right onto the ground to obtain every benefit of the drag if you need to.

It is up to the instructor/mentor and "student" (who could still be an experienced pilot in recurrent training) to find a suitable place, which if quiet could be the airport. I know that some airports allow the use of the infield for that. We were touring through Croatia, and the airport we stopped was dead quiet. Lots of runway, and no traffic, I asked ATC, and no problem, as many circuits and PFL's as we wanted. I'm sure tower enjoyed the show!

[mary meagher]

Step turn suggests carrying extra speed to the flare in an actual forced landing rather than best glide. VERY IMPORTANT. It enables you to see that invisible wire strung between the trees while you still have height and speed to avoid it...or an inconvenient fence. You can always get rid of that extra energy but if the field is too small and the hedge is approaching all too soon on your rollout after touchdown, it won't hurt nearly as bad as winding your aircraft up in an unseen wire on short final.