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PA32 down in Slovenia

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PA32 down in Slovenia

Old 14th Jul 2016, 19:26
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PA32 down in Slovenia

Per Berliner-Kurier a PA32 crashed and burned in woods on a flight from Venice to Leipzig. 4 persons aboard, including the boss of ab-in-urlaub.de, vacation site for Germans. All passengers German in a US registered aircraft.
The Pilot said to have reported icing.
The German report.
Unglück in Slowenien: ?Ab in den Urlaub?-Chef Wagner (38) stirbt bei Flugzeugabsturz | Berliner-Kurier.de
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Old 14th Jul 2016, 19:42
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Unister runs "fluege.de", too.

Crashsite is west of Ljubljana: https://goo.gl/maps/yGZtTjbD7CQ2
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Old 14th Jul 2016, 19:53
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I would not expect icing on that trip at this time of the year. The PA32 is not capable of flight in icing conditions. Perhaps this was related to thunderstorms?

Media report here
On the way from Venice to Leipzig – “Holiday Time” boss Thomas Wagner dies in plane crash.

Unister boss Thomas Wagner was killed. Also three other people died.

The US registered machine of the type Piper 32 was en route from Venice to Leipzig, the media reported, citing to the police. The pilot had reported before the crash at Predmeja east of the country problems because of icing. The machine was raced and burned in the mountainous terrain in the forest.

A spokeswoman for the airport in Leipzig confirmed that a private plane for 14:45 was announced at the Airport. Among the passengers could not confirm the accuracy of the airport, she said.
source http://archyworldys.com/on-the-way-f...n-plane-crash/
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Old 15th Jul 2016, 02:49
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Why would you not expect icing? Zero degree Celsius is currently between FL65 and FL85, weather is moist and spread low, so at PA32 usual cruise altitude you do have to have a lookout for ice, or?
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Old 15th Jul 2016, 08:03
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With the usual caveats regarding the accuracy and significance of FlightRadar24 data, here is the flight track:
In the speed/altitude charts, the aircraft is shown cruising at approx. 13500ft.

I live less than 50km from the area. On Wednesday evening a cold front came in and we are still experiencing less-than-average temperatures.
At the time of the accident the temperature on the ground at the closest METAR station (LIPQ) was around 15°C, dewpoint 11 with thunderstorm activity.
I would think it was a bit too warm for airframe icing, but carb icing was definitely possible.
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Old 15th Jul 2016, 08:25
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I know Slovenia well having flown a Seneca Five there on numerous occasions
LJLJ has to be one of the prettiest locations for an airport but surrounded by large mountains
Obviously away from the mountains the country is flatter running to the sea
All the Alps are prone to CBS rising to 35/36 K
A recent flight in a jet into Treviso which boarders Slovenia and it was a real headache finding a way in with the CBS ice can be severe
With the SSA being so high icing can be a problem at all times of the year
As he declared an Icing problem its likely thats what he had
I used to fly a PA32 for a company years back and a bad icing experience over Scotland made them change for an icing capable and approved Seneca 4
Get a machine to deal with the mission profile and a Saratoga is just a less capable Single engined Seneca
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Old 15th Jul 2016, 11:40
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Anyone who knows if it was an IFR or VFR flight ?
Aiframe icing was absolutely possible and loss of control due to inadvertently entering a thunderstorm activity cell as well. We will wait for the report. Not ideal conditions to fly a PA32 though...
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Old 16th Jul 2016, 15:32
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The flight was filed IFR and the accepted known routing (LIPZ N0127F120 ROSKA P125 RON P735 RIFEN/N0127F110 P735 DOL/N0129F120 L868 KFT L173 MORED Q112 TITIG Z79 DETEX DCT MAMOR L132 KILNU DCT ABU DCT GERDO EDDP) is a bit strange given the weather conditions, as it was going directly into bad weather eastwards, instead of going more westerly over the Alpes.
We can only speculate what brought them to do that route, but the story about major sums of Euros on board do sound strange as well.
We'll have to wait&see ...

Last edited by ChickenHouse; 16th Jul 2016 at 15:55.
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Old 27th Jul 2016, 21:40
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Well, there are pilots out there who are convinced that weather isn't an issue when they go flying. I suspect that such a thought process might have played a role too in this tragic incident.

May their souls rest in peace.

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Old 6th Aug 2016, 20:00
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The preliminary report is here:

It is in Slovenian language, but as you can understand from the factual information presented in the report, weather is the main factor being investigated.
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Old 13th Oct 2016, 10:48
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Less slovene more english:


Last edited by ryancy; 13th Oct 2016 at 10:52. Reason: correct input of link
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