Help buying/flying a micorlight('Lambada') Hungary to Ireland
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Help buying/flying a micorlight('Lambada') Hungary to Ireland
Hello all,
I'm travelling to Hungary shortly to look at a microlight for sale there and would be very grateful if anyone might be able to help with out with some queries regarding this.
The aircraft in question is a UFM-13/15 Lambada motorglider with a Rotax 912 ULS engine.
I would be very interested to know;
1. Is it legally possible to fly it from Hungary to Ireland? Staying within the E.U.
It has a Hungarian ARC at present.
Perhaps someone on here might have some experience of international flying and could help me plan such a trip?
I have downloaded SkyDemon for my iPad and it seems very useful.
I would need to transit;
Hungary, Austria, Germany, Belgium and the U. K.
It doesn't have a transponder at present however I might be able to get one fitted with the help of the current owner.
Is Mode C enough or would I need mode S capability too?
2. I am going to do some TMG flying shortly to renew my TMG rating. I'm assuming that that will cover me to fly a microlight? I have an ATPL(A). However I understand that, technically, I only need a microlight endorsement to fly this aircraft. Is that correct?
3. Lastly, might anyone be able to point me in the direction of a reputable insurance broker? I only have Google to go with so far.
Any help regarding helping me to plan such a long trip would be greatly appreciated.
Best regards,
UFO-Flying-Airbus
I'm travelling to Hungary shortly to look at a microlight for sale there and would be very grateful if anyone might be able to help with out with some queries regarding this.
The aircraft in question is a UFM-13/15 Lambada motorglider with a Rotax 912 ULS engine.
I would be very interested to know;
1. Is it legally possible to fly it from Hungary to Ireland? Staying within the E.U.
It has a Hungarian ARC at present.
Perhaps someone on here might have some experience of international flying and could help me plan such a trip?
I have downloaded SkyDemon for my iPad and it seems very useful.
I would need to transit;
Hungary, Austria, Germany, Belgium and the U. K.
It doesn't have a transponder at present however I might be able to get one fitted with the help of the current owner.
Is Mode C enough or would I need mode S capability too?
2. I am going to do some TMG flying shortly to renew my TMG rating. I'm assuming that that will cover me to fly a microlight? I have an ATPL(A). However I understand that, technically, I only need a microlight endorsement to fly this aircraft. Is that correct?
3. Lastly, might anyone be able to point me in the direction of a reputable insurance broker? I only have Google to go with so far.
Any help regarding helping me to plan such a long trip would be greatly appreciated.
Best regards,
UFO-Flying-Airbus
1) yes mode C would be sufficient however there will be limitations, for example Germany will not allow you higher than 5000' AMSL. You could in fact cross Germany and Belgium without any transponder at all, but I think Hungary requires one. No idea about the situation in Austria - I do know they require an ELT there, though.
2) no, the microlight (called ultralight outside the U.K.) license is totally separate from all others. In fact, microlight licenses are nationally administered, you would need to have one national ultralight license, then make sure there is mutual acceptance of them between the authorities of the other countries visited/transited. That last point would not be too critical, I believe. But EASA/ICAO licenses have nothing to do with ultralights.
3) sorry, not a beginning of an answer there
Some afterthoughts:
-) perhaps consider doing part of the trip on a trailer? A lot less doubt about the weather, and it can be as fast, because one can drive at night. My own came from Hungary that way. Ferries would make the last part expensive, though.
-) instead of flying over Austria, consider routing via Czechia: that country is full of small fields with friendly helpful people. Not to say anything negative about Austria, though, only I have never flown there.
-) another point of concern is the overflight permit - in all theory, you would need to pay +/- 90 € to be permitted to enter Belgian airspace. In the real world, things are more relaxed, though.
2) no, the microlight (called ultralight outside the U.K.) license is totally separate from all others. In fact, microlight licenses are nationally administered, you would need to have one national ultralight license, then make sure there is mutual acceptance of them between the authorities of the other countries visited/transited. That last point would not be too critical, I believe. But EASA/ICAO licenses have nothing to do with ultralights.
3) sorry, not a beginning of an answer there
Some afterthoughts:
-) perhaps consider doing part of the trip on a trailer? A lot less doubt about the weather, and it can be as fast, because one can drive at night. My own came from Hungary that way. Ferries would make the last part expensive, though.
-) instead of flying over Austria, consider routing via Czechia: that country is full of small fields with friendly helpful people. Not to say anything negative about Austria, though, only I have never flown there.
-) another point of concern is the overflight permit - in all theory, you would need to pay +/- 90 € to be permitted to enter Belgian airspace. In the real world, things are more relaxed, though.
Last edited by Jan Olieslagers; 25th Jun 2016 at 13:48.
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Hello Jan,
Thank you very much for your help. Regarding a transponder-I was thinking that Hungary didn't need one because the owner is currently flying there without one(?)
So my UK EASA ATPL(A) with TMG endorsement will not cover me to fly this aircraft?
If I understand correctly I would need to do a, for example, Irish microlight rating and then set about making sure that it was valid for all the countries I fly over? Sounds tedious! :-)
Yes, I will certainly consider the trailer option. Although I work and live in Asia and have limited time. I am also considering a ferry pilot.
Thanks again for your input. Much appreciated.
Thank you very much for your help. Regarding a transponder-I was thinking that Hungary didn't need one because the owner is currently flying there without one(?)
So my UK EASA ATPL(A) with TMG endorsement will not cover me to fly this aircraft?
If I understand correctly I would need to do a, for example, Irish microlight rating and then set about making sure that it was valid for all the countries I fly over? Sounds tedious! :-)
Yes, I will certainly consider the trailer option. Although I work and live in Asia and have limited time. I am also considering a ferry pilot.
Thanks again for your input. Much appreciated.
The way I understand it - and I could be quite wrong - is that if you want to fly an ultralight with Hungarian registration, you need a Hungarian ultralight license.
Somebody please correct me if I'm mistaken.
I think there are 4 possibilities:
-) trailer it
-) hire a ferry pilot
-) use your EASA license to get a Hungarian ultralight license. Some organizations make it quite easy, others less. Ask the owner there if it is feasible or not.
-) buy the ultralight, have it registered in the UK and then go get it.
If you fly over the Czech Republic and need support, let me know.
Somebody please correct me if I'm mistaken.
I think there are 4 possibilities:
-) trailer it
-) hire a ferry pilot
-) use your EASA license to get a Hungarian ultralight license. Some organizations make it quite easy, others less. Ask the owner there if it is feasible or not.
-) buy the ultralight, have it registered in the UK and then go get it.
If you fly over the Czech Republic and need support, let me know.
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The good thing is that if your destination is within another Schengen country, you won't need any customs/passport control before departure.
I've dealt with the Irish Aviation Authority a bit in the past.
Unless the rules have changed recently, you have two choices eventually. Either transfer everything - aircraft and personal licences to the Irish register, or keep the aircraft and licence current in accordance with Hungarian regs, and obtain an Irish "Flight Permit" validating all of that.
I would strongly recommend contacting the IAA directly - they can be a difficult, but the best people there are very good and very helpful. They should be able to lead you through it all and help you sort out the best regulatory route once in Ireland.
Have a look on the UK Light Aircraft Association website also. There's a document lurking there somewhere which is an occasionally updated summary of the position with regard to overflights in homebuilt aeroplanes of most countries in Europe. I can't see that the rules will be much different for something British registered, and Hungarian registered.
I must admit, if doing that trip by air, I'd much rather have a transponder. It'll just solve so many problems before you knew you had them with ATC.
G
Unless the rules have changed recently, you have two choices eventually. Either transfer everything - aircraft and personal licences to the Irish register, or keep the aircraft and licence current in accordance with Hungarian regs, and obtain an Irish "Flight Permit" validating all of that.
I would strongly recommend contacting the IAA directly - they can be a difficult, but the best people there are very good and very helpful. They should be able to lead you through it all and help you sort out the best regulatory route once in Ireland.
Have a look on the UK Light Aircraft Association website also. There's a document lurking there somewhere which is an occasionally updated summary of the position with regard to overflights in homebuilt aeroplanes of most countries in Europe. I can't see that the rules will be much different for something British registered, and Hungarian registered.
I must admit, if doing that trip by air, I'd much rather have a transponder. It'll just solve so many problems before you knew you had them with ATC.
G
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no, the microlight (called ultralight outside the U.K.) license is totally separate from all others.
It seems to me that in the UK, and perhaps in other countries, the water is less deep. Here in BE, one would need to take a flight test with an ultralight examinator, but no theoretical exams would be required, I think, given a PPL or higher. And there wouldn't be a requirement for training a certain number of hours, either, actually we don't even have that for pilots going for the ultralight as their first license. There have been stories of chaps passing the practical test after only a handful of hours of ultralight flying, but they did have a lot of experience, perhaps in gliders or even in R/C flying.
It is a bit of a shame that ultralights can't be regulated Europe-wide, yes. But that is another discussion.
It is a bit of a shame that ultralights can't be regulated Europe-wide, yes. But that is another discussion.
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In Ireland it is now perfectly legal for EASA SEP holders to fly microlight aircraft without any additional endorsements, training ect. Just two years ago, you had to do 5 hours differences training, but not anymore.
I suspect this change is driven by EASA and it is very possible that you are perfectly fine with your licence all over EU and you can fly whatever you want. Check with the authorities concerned first thou!
I suspect this change is driven by EASA and it is very possible that you are perfectly fine with your licence all over EU and you can fly whatever you want. Check with the authorities concerned first thou!
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Martin 123-
That sounds great. Thanks for your help! I don't suppose you might be able to provide any reference for this? Thanks again.
Ghengis The Engineer-
Thanks for your post. I will most certainly be contacting the IAA, good idea.
I think I might have found the document which you kindly suggested I look at;
http://www.lightaircraftassociation....20Aircraft.pdf
That sounds great. Thanks for your help! I don't suppose you might be able to provide any reference for this? Thanks again.
Ghengis The Engineer-
Thanks for your post. I will most certainly be contacting the IAA, good idea.
I think I might have found the document which you kindly suggested I look at;
http://www.lightaircraftassociation....20Aircraft.pdf
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UFO, I can't find anything specific in IAA AIPs, but this is where I got the idea from:
http://www.nmai.ie/wp-content/upload...ights-V3sm.pdf
get in touch with NMAI, they're very helpful. I'm sure their members have done this before
http://www.nmai.ie/wp-content/upload...ights-V3sm.pdf
get in touch with NMAI, they're very helpful. I'm sure their members have done this before
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The LAA document is all about homebuilt aircraft. What you need is this http://emf.aero/wordpress/wp-content...in_Europe1.pdf
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If buying a used model, don't all these rules and regulations depend on whether it has been registered by its current owner under CS-VLA, CS-22 (glider/powered glider), or locally as a ULM/ultralight/microlight.
If the aircraft is currently registered CS-VLA, a lot of the licensing issues disappear, EASA aircraft and EASA licence, so just get your SEP renewed/revalidated on your British ATPL, and then you can fly it home on its current reg.
If registered under CS-22, similarly, wouldn't you just need TMG class rating added to your UK license, and it could then be flown home in its current reg?
If registered locally as ULM... I have no idea, see advice from people who know about that sort of thing.
However, having done some cross-European VFR flying in a rotax powered VLA (very recently), would be happy to advise on some routing/night stops worth making!
If the aircraft is currently registered CS-VLA, a lot of the licensing issues disappear, EASA aircraft and EASA licence, so just get your SEP renewed/revalidated on your British ATPL, and then you can fly it home on its current reg.
If registered under CS-22, similarly, wouldn't you just need TMG class rating added to your UK license, and it could then be flown home in its current reg?
If registered locally as ULM... I have no idea, see advice from people who know about that sort of thing.
However, having done some cross-European VFR flying in a rotax powered VLA (very recently), would be happy to advise on some routing/night stops worth making!
If buying a used model, don't all these rules and regulations depend on whether it has been registered by its current owner under CS-VLA, CS-22 (glider/powered glider), or locally as a ULM/ultralight/microlight.
If the aircraft is currently registered CS-VLA, a lot of the licensing issues disappear, EASA aircraft and EASA licence, so just get your SEP renewed/revalidated on your British ATPL, and then you can fly it home on its current reg.
If registered under CS-22, similarly, wouldn't you just need TMG class rating added to your UK license, and it could then be flown home in its current reg?
If registered locally as ULM... I have no idea, see advice from people who know about that sort of thing.
However, having done some cross-European VFR flying in a rotax powered VLA (very recently), would be happy to advise on some routing/night stops worth making!
If the aircraft is currently registered CS-VLA, a lot of the licensing issues disappear, EASA aircraft and EASA licence, so just get your SEP renewed/revalidated on your British ATPL, and then you can fly it home on its current reg.
If registered under CS-22, similarly, wouldn't you just need TMG class rating added to your UK license, and it could then be flown home in its current reg?
If registered locally as ULM... I have no idea, see advice from people who know about that sort of thing.
However, having done some cross-European VFR flying in a rotax powered VLA (very recently), would be happy to advise on some routing/night stops worth making!
It's got an ICAO compliance CofA (which might have been against 22, 23, VLA or something older like the old BCAR K) or it hasn't (including microlights and homebuilts, some of which can have been designed and approved against 23 or VLA).
CofA aircraft get automatic overflight permission, sub-ICAO / non-CofA don't and need to apply (and in Belgium, pay) for it.
G
