Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads)
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: eastcoastoz
Age: 76
Posts: 1,699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hear, hear.
Should it be on Private Flying, the Mil forum or AH&N?
There are a lot of very worthwhile stories of, and by, women pilots that should be recorded on PPRuNe.
The TCT tale of deceit (et-cetera) should, of course, remain as a salutary lesson, though.
Perhaps the Mods could advise.
.
Should it be on Private Flying, the Mil forum or AH&N?
There are a lot of very worthwhile stories of, and by, women pilots that should be recorded on PPRuNe.
The TCT tale of deceit (et-cetera) should, of course, remain as a salutary lesson, though.
Perhaps the Mods could advise.
.
Last edited by Stanwell; 23rd Nov 2016 at 23:30.
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: S.E. England (for now)
Age: 41
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are a lot of very worthwhile stories of, and by, women pilots that should be recorded on PPRuNe.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Littlest Hobo,
There are - can I recommend Military Aviation Forum's "Gaining a R.A.F. Pilot's Brevet in WWII" ? Started by Clifford Leach ("Cliffnemo"), now RIP, eight years ago, it has gone from strength to strength and has the highest number of 'hits' of any Thread on that Forum with the exception of the "Caption Competition" - which by its very nature must attract a large number of "one-liners".
Have a look,
Danny42C,
There are - can I recommend Military Aviation Forum's "Gaining a R.A.F. Pilot's Brevet in WWII" ? Started by Clifford Leach ("Cliffnemo"), now RIP, eight years ago, it has gone from strength to strength and has the highest number of 'hits' of any Thread on that Forum with the exception of the "Caption Competition" - which by its very nature must attract a large number of "one-liners".
Have a look,
Danny42C,
As expected, the university are standing by the Honorary Doctorate I have today received a further response from Portsmouth University, a rather polite F O letter :-)
Dear ######
As we have already stated, the University made this award to Tracey Curtis-Taylor not only on the basis of her flights and other activities within aviation, but also based on her enduring commitment to activities in support of outreach and education, her work with charities and with young people, which we accede. While we appreciate you have strong views about whether she is a suitable role-model, they are your own. We have no further comment to make on this subject.
Kind regards
#### (###### is on leave this week)
I have replied with this, as is my right:
Dear Sir , Under the Freedom of Information Act 2000, please provide me with copies of the following:
· Copies of the Minutes of the meeting(s) where the award of an Honorary Doctorate to Ms Tracey Curtis-Taylor was discussed.
· Copies of the documents that brought her to the attention of the University.
· Copies of e-mails and/or documentation relating to this award between members of the University Awards Committee (or similar body) and the Bird in a Biplane Public Relations Team.
I understand that under the Act I am entitled to a response within 20 working days of your receipt of this request.
Some parts of the request may be easier to answer than others. Should this be the case, I request that you release information as soon as possible. If my request is denied in whole or in part, I ask that you justify all deletions by reference to specific exemptions of the act. I will also expect you to release all non-exempt material. I reserve the right to appeal your decision to withhold any information or to charge excessive fees. I would prefer to receive the information electronically. If you require any clarification, I expect you to contact me under your section 16 duty to provide advice and assistance if you find any aspect of this FOI request problematic.
Please acknowledge receipt of this request, and I look forward to receiving the information in the near future.
Yours faithfully
(Name and address supplied)
I have checked and the University is bound by the FOI Act, I look forward to their response
Dear ######
As we have already stated, the University made this award to Tracey Curtis-Taylor not only on the basis of her flights and other activities within aviation, but also based on her enduring commitment to activities in support of outreach and education, her work with charities and with young people, which we accede. While we appreciate you have strong views about whether she is a suitable role-model, they are your own. We have no further comment to make on this subject.
Kind regards
#### (###### is on leave this week)
I have replied with this, as is my right:
Dear Sir , Under the Freedom of Information Act 2000, please provide me with copies of the following:
· Copies of the Minutes of the meeting(s) where the award of an Honorary Doctorate to Ms Tracey Curtis-Taylor was discussed.
· Copies of the documents that brought her to the attention of the University.
· Copies of e-mails and/or documentation relating to this award between members of the University Awards Committee (or similar body) and the Bird in a Biplane Public Relations Team.
I understand that under the Act I am entitled to a response within 20 working days of your receipt of this request.
Some parts of the request may be easier to answer than others. Should this be the case, I request that you release information as soon as possible. If my request is denied in whole or in part, I ask that you justify all deletions by reference to specific exemptions of the act. I will also expect you to release all non-exempt material. I reserve the right to appeal your decision to withhold any information or to charge excessive fees. I would prefer to receive the information electronically. If you require any clarification, I expect you to contact me under your section 16 duty to provide advice and assistance if you find any aspect of this FOI request problematic.
Please acknowledge receipt of this request, and I look forward to receiving the information in the near future.
Yours faithfully
(Name and address supplied)
I have checked and the University is bound by the FOI Act, I look forward to their response
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: eastcoastoz
Age: 76
Posts: 1,699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Their response to that will be interesting, SWB.
I'm surprised that they even thought that a polite 'far-cough' reply would suffice.
The rigid digit seems to be becoming a common salute within certain circles these days.
I'm surprised that they even thought that a polite 'far-cough' reply would suffice.
The rigid digit seems to be becoming a common salute within certain circles these days.
The Uni have acknowledged my FOI request and have said they will have a response to me by 22nd December, if not sooner.
In the meantime, I fully support a page (or addition to an existing page) detailing the exploits of those fine and inspirational pilots like Mary Ellis.
What they did has to a great extent been overlooked; a lady I would be honoured to meet. Brave, unassuming and not in it for the fame... unlike someone else we all know about but I refuse to name in the same post as Mary Ellis.
SWB
In the meantime, I fully support a page (or addition to an existing page) detailing the exploits of those fine and inspirational pilots like Mary Ellis.
What they did has to a great extent been overlooked; a lady I would be honoured to meet. Brave, unassuming and not in it for the fame... unlike someone else we all know about but I refuse to name in the same post as Mary Ellis.
SWB
Moderator
Those who are enthusiastic about celebrating famed or fameworthy pilots are encouraged to post on the aviation history and nostalgia forum:
Aviation History and Nostalgia - PPRuNe Forums
The accomplishments of these pilots of a previous era are appreciated, but, aside from passing reference, are not a good fit in this thread.
Aviation History and Nostalgia - PPRuNe Forums
The accomplishments of these pilots of a previous era are appreciated, but, aside from passing reference, are not a good fit in this thread.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: cambridge
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I cannot help feeling confused about this extraordinary series of posts from individuals, hiding behind strange, bizarre, and anonymous code names who are hell bent on trying to destroy the reputation of an accomplished pilot who in flying an open cockpit aeroplane from S Africa to the UK, and then from the UK to Australia, has accomplished rather more in aviation than most GA pilots. Most of the people posting quite extraordinary messages "knocking" her courage and achievements probably don't even have a clue whoTracey is, but just think it's clever to boost their own "armchair pilot ego", by running down what she has done. For goodness sake children, get a life and do something positive like trying to encourage young people into aviation which is in decline in the U.K. Oh whoops! Isn't that precisely what Tracey is trying to do!
Last edited by terry holloway; 25th Nov 2016 at 11:34.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, "Terry Holloway", If your intent is to get the thread locked thus allowing this well documented fraud to continue, then I suggest you provide evidence of the accomplishment's to the contrary to the water tight evidence of deception by this female and her cohorts, starting with the claims of airshow and other flying qualification, we wait with baited breath!
Terry Holloway,
You say that Tracy has:
And that is very true. However, may I refer you to an earlier post by a pilot who has also achieved rather more than most GA pilots, Helen Krasner:
I can tell you that, as a 77 year old PPL with about 500 hours I would jump at the chance to add to my 90 minutes in a Stearman by flying to Australia with an experienced pilot to hold my hand and a support team to handle all the logistics.
The only credit I would give her is that she has actually made it happen. How she did it I can only imagine.
Hey, I just had a thought. If Artemis or someone would sponsor me I would do it for the sake of all those other geriatrics out there. How about it?
You say that Tracy has:
has accomplished rather more in aviation than most GA pilots.
IF these had been solo flights, they would of been worthy of admiration and awards. As flights with someone else there, they are not; they are simply ordinary flights. I speak as an (ex) pilot and flying instructor of many years and flying hours standing. I also happen to be female, which is actually irrelevant. Flying solo over great distances is mentally hard, and hard work. Flying with someone else there with you who is either a pilot or knows about aviation, turns it into an ordinary flight, albeit a long one. Who manipulates the controls is irrelevant. I could have done it, most qualified private pilots could have done it, many people have done it - both male and female. It is simply not worth mentioning, let alone being mentioned in the press or given awards.
The only credit I would give her is that she has actually made it happen. How she did it I can only imagine.
Hey, I just had a thought. If Artemis or someone would sponsor me I would do it for the sake of all those other geriatrics out there. How about it?
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Bath
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The name Terry Holloway rings a bell. Isn't there a Terry Holloway who is connected to Marshall's Aerospace at Cambridge, who is connected to a mate who shared a bed with TCT, who is connected with an elderly gentleman quite senior at HCAP? Hang on, there is a Terry Holloway at Air League too.
Hmmm. Fishy.
Hmmm. Fishy.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,515
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
get a life and do something positive like trying to encourage young people into aviation
...Most of the people posting quite extraordinary messages "knocking" her courage and achievements probably don't even have a clue whoTracey is...
I've also read most of this thread and I have not seen a single post by anybody "knocking her courage". It's a kind of puzzling remark that...why would anyone assess her courage based on what she has or has not done? Do you need to be inherently courageous to fly a Stearman? Enlighten me please.
Also I'm 60, a retired RAF Sqn Ldr, a retired Company Director and a father of three. So I take a little exception to being labelled a child. However, I personally welcome your input as TCT's side has not been presented well enough in this thread and I applaud you for forgoing the anonymity that Pprune provides for those that wish it. Especially as you are prominent in aviation and an ex RAF senior officer.
But perhaps you could respect the rights of other forum users, stow the insults, and actually address the issues. After all that's what grown ups do, is it not?
PS Marshalls have deep pockets....Tracey needs a sponsor...You obviously support her...crack on. I'll waive my introduction fee.
Last edited by The Old Fat One; 25th Nov 2016 at 13:41.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Welcome Terry, and thank you for your effort at presenting a different perspective. I don't agree with the perspective you present, but I respect your presenting it. This has been a very one sided discussion, as few people have come to present a defense of what TCT has accomplished.
In my opinion [hope], if the very publicized flying in which TCT was involved were really defensable against the many accusations in this thread, she would have been here defending her flying. The absence of a qualified defense, coupled with a number of well documented examples of TCT defeating her own declarations, and back peddling/rewriting her own history do not give me confidence in her.
Many very experienced pilots participate in this discussion, to assert our right to defend the honour of simply being a pilot, and person who is truthful about what they do.
Personally, I knew nothing of TCT before this thread gained momentum. In my role in the aviation industry, based upon more than 40 years of involvement, I have come to know many pilots, and been in the role of assessing them for flying duties. I have learned to read between the lines, and listen to more than what the pilot themselves is telling me about their experience, qualification, and flying habits. Honestly, TCT presents a good story on the surface, but when I use my skill and experience to peel back the layers to examine the underlying truths, what I see as factual - from TCT's own presentations and interviews (her own words), gives me little confidence in her. If she were a pilot in my charge, her duties and freedom to fly would be carefully watched, to assure operational safety. She would not be the pilot I would confidently send off to handle a challenging flight. She would not be my choice for a role model to the next generation.
Many people are anonymous here, not just so they can express their feelings about TCT, but just generally anonymous, and that's okay. For some people, their terms of employment prohibit being "identified" in such forums, and that's okay too. I have found posters here to be very accountable if privately asked, and very approachable. I have met many personally and am proud to be among this group.
My ego is not boosted by challenging TCT, I am a little less proud to be a pilot as long as pilots like TCT are positioning themselves as ambassadors of aviation. I have four decades of flying on three continents (including Africa), and I have not wrecked an aircraft, let alone two in a couple of years. I have never lied about flying solo, nor accepted money and public speaking engagements based upon mis represented piloting. My ego is not a factor in this discussion.
A number of posters here have asked TCT to repent. She is welcomed to post here to defend herself, but seems not to. She is welcomed to post here to repent, and "come clean". For one, I'm still hopeful she will enter the discussion with other pilots. I'm sure she closely monitors what is written here.
In the mean time Terry Holloway, You are welcomed to post your opinion here, and additional factual details you might know. If that information objectively changes opinion here, that's entirely fine. Don't expect a rush to agreement, but well worded, polite, factual posts have merit here - the thread is not going to be locked just because your opinion differs from others here.
In my opinion [hope], if the very publicized flying in which TCT was involved were really defensable against the many accusations in this thread, she would have been here defending her flying. The absence of a qualified defense, coupled with a number of well documented examples of TCT defeating her own declarations, and back peddling/rewriting her own history do not give me confidence in her.
Many very experienced pilots participate in this discussion, to assert our right to defend the honour of simply being a pilot, and person who is truthful about what they do.
Personally, I knew nothing of TCT before this thread gained momentum. In my role in the aviation industry, based upon more than 40 years of involvement, I have come to know many pilots, and been in the role of assessing them for flying duties. I have learned to read between the lines, and listen to more than what the pilot themselves is telling me about their experience, qualification, and flying habits. Honestly, TCT presents a good story on the surface, but when I use my skill and experience to peel back the layers to examine the underlying truths, what I see as factual - from TCT's own presentations and interviews (her own words), gives me little confidence in her. If she were a pilot in my charge, her duties and freedom to fly would be carefully watched, to assure operational safety. She would not be the pilot I would confidently send off to handle a challenging flight. She would not be my choice for a role model to the next generation.
Many people are anonymous here, not just so they can express their feelings about TCT, but just generally anonymous, and that's okay. For some people, their terms of employment prohibit being "identified" in such forums, and that's okay too. I have found posters here to be very accountable if privately asked, and very approachable. I have met many personally and am proud to be among this group.
My ego is not boosted by challenging TCT, I am a little less proud to be a pilot as long as pilots like TCT are positioning themselves as ambassadors of aviation. I have four decades of flying on three continents (including Africa), and I have not wrecked an aircraft, let alone two in a couple of years. I have never lied about flying solo, nor accepted money and public speaking engagements based upon mis represented piloting. My ego is not a factor in this discussion.
A number of posters here have asked TCT to repent. She is welcomed to post here to defend herself, but seems not to. She is welcomed to post here to repent, and "come clean". For one, I'm still hopeful she will enter the discussion with other pilots. I'm sure she closely monitors what is written here.
In the mean time Terry Holloway, You are welcomed to post your opinion here, and additional factual details you might know. If that information objectively changes opinion here, that's entirely fine. Don't expect a rush to agreement, but well worded, polite, factual posts have merit here - the thread is not going to be locked just because your opinion differs from others here.
I have just heard on the BBC news that MPs have just passed a bill which prohibits the wearing of medals and military insignia to which you are not entitled. Maximum penalty is 6 months in jail and/or a £5,000 penalty. Get your cheque book out dear.
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: South
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TCT to receive another award?
Are my eyes deceiving me? I think I have just seen a post by Terry Holloway on the Maurice Kirk thread saying TCT will be receiving another award on Monday - this time from the RAeS. Is that correct? Post seems to have disappeared.
I have just looked at the RAeS website and there certainly seems to be an award ceremony scheduled for the 28th November.
I have just looked at the RAeS website and there certainly seems to be an award ceremony scheduled for the 28th November.
Terry you are more than welcome to your opinions and you are entitled to question our motives, in much the same way that we are questioning those of TCT and her supporters. Previous posters have summed it all up pretty well but I respectfully suggest you have a look at the evidence that has been pulled together by around 300 different posters on this thread alone.
From the outset it is clear that sponsorship has been raised based upon a ...how shall I put this tactfully... a lie.
There has been been no attempt to correct the media portrayal of these flights and there has even been clear occasions when she herself has stated the words "I was alone", "on my own" and "back from my SOLO flights" long after the events.
Any ab-initio to 10,000hr pilot knows the significance of the simple word; none will ever forget their first SOLO, that time when it was just their ability keeping them safe.
A lot of people know TCT very well and they know her history too - both personal and professional backgrounds. Many too know that most airfields where she has had any involvement have resulted in her leaving, or being asked to leave. A track record of airspace busts, crashes and a cavalier attitude to authority give a very good indicator as to her worth as a role model. A tendency to embellish "achievement" and a clear intent to deflect responsibility for adverse events onto others does not sit very well in any environment let alone aviation.
The LAA made their decision long before the video of her at Herne Bay was made public, I wonder what bluster she would have come out with at their AGM if it had been shown before the vote.
So...
Rather than calling the whistle-blowers childish and in need of getting a life, may I suggest you and your HCAP colleagues take a moment to REALLY look at the type of individual you are supporting. The citation re-writes just make you all look rather silly. Being gullible is not a crime and there would be no shame in admitting that you were, like us, misled from the start. If you were a true friend to her then you would be offering her help rather than delaying the end result by denying what has happened.
Whilst I have your attention and knowing that you know TCT, can you ask her what happened to the cameras that were on the SoA at the time it crashed at Winslow? I strongly suspect these were ferreted away PDQ as they are likely to show an event other than as described in her "incident" (sic) report. Whilst you are at it, ask her the questions yourself that we have been asking for months - you only need to flick back a page or two - and see if you, hand on heart, believe a word she says in reply.
As for anonymity; I have been on this forum for many years. Those that need to know who I am do so. This also extends to all parties that I have communicated with including staff at Entebbe Airport, Winslow Airport, Portsmouth University and many other bodies that have been drawn into this charade.
From the outset it is clear that sponsorship has been raised based upon a ...how shall I put this tactfully... a lie.
There has been been no attempt to correct the media portrayal of these flights and there has even been clear occasions when she herself has stated the words "I was alone", "on my own" and "back from my SOLO flights" long after the events.
Any ab-initio to 10,000hr pilot knows the significance of the simple word; none will ever forget their first SOLO, that time when it was just their ability keeping them safe.
A lot of people know TCT very well and they know her history too - both personal and professional backgrounds. Many too know that most airfields where she has had any involvement have resulted in her leaving, or being asked to leave. A track record of airspace busts, crashes and a cavalier attitude to authority give a very good indicator as to her worth as a role model. A tendency to embellish "achievement" and a clear intent to deflect responsibility for adverse events onto others does not sit very well in any environment let alone aviation.
The LAA made their decision long before the video of her at Herne Bay was made public, I wonder what bluster she would have come out with at their AGM if it had been shown before the vote.
So...
Rather than calling the whistle-blowers childish and in need of getting a life, may I suggest you and your HCAP colleagues take a moment to REALLY look at the type of individual you are supporting. The citation re-writes just make you all look rather silly. Being gullible is not a crime and there would be no shame in admitting that you were, like us, misled from the start. If you were a true friend to her then you would be offering her help rather than delaying the end result by denying what has happened.
Whilst I have your attention and knowing that you know TCT, can you ask her what happened to the cameras that were on the SoA at the time it crashed at Winslow? I strongly suspect these were ferreted away PDQ as they are likely to show an event other than as described in her "incident" (sic) report. Whilst you are at it, ask her the questions yourself that we have been asking for months - you only need to flick back a page or two - and see if you, hand on heart, believe a word she says in reply.
As for anonymity; I have been on this forum for many years. Those that need to know who I am do so. This also extends to all parties that I have communicated with including staff at Entebbe Airport, Winslow Airport, Portsmouth University and many other bodies that have been drawn into this charade.
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: S.E. England (for now)
Age: 41
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Step Turn
She would not be my choice for a role model to the next generation.
I speak not only as a mother, but also as an engineer, private pilot and STEM ambassador.
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Horsted Keynes, West Sussex.
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Firstly , well done to all at PPruNe for allowing this absolutely amazing thread to run ! To achieve nearly half a million posts without any real 'nasties' is equally amazing.
But I think that one of the main reasons for this is because of the high quality of many of the contributors.
Since I started following this , it has become quite evident that there are quite a few intelligent and professional people making inputs here .
Mr Holloway's rather badly worded post does neither his nor Ms Curtis-Taylor's cause any favours at all and he could have preserved his reputation a little better by just remaining quiet.
Having encountered Ms Curtis-Taylor on Oct22nd at the LAA-AGM , an otherwise thoroughly pleasant event with some very interesting exhibits and speakers , I can vouch for the fact that this event was given a slightly prickly atmosphere by her presence and a slightly embarrassing atmosphere when one of her 'team' attempted to fiddle the process by vote-gerrymandering . Fortunately, for the democratic process, this was immediately stamped upon from the Chair and the Motion carried.
Mr Holloway only makes a fool of himself by attempting to :
A. Ignore the truth.
B. Discredit contributors on here.
I am sure that he's not quite as naïve as his post suggests , but with the buzzards starting to circle as they are now, he would do well in exercising a little prudence in whom he defends.
But I think that one of the main reasons for this is because of the high quality of many of the contributors.
Since I started following this , it has become quite evident that there are quite a few intelligent and professional people making inputs here .
Mr Holloway's rather badly worded post does neither his nor Ms Curtis-Taylor's cause any favours at all and he could have preserved his reputation a little better by just remaining quiet.
Having encountered Ms Curtis-Taylor on Oct22nd at the LAA-AGM , an otherwise thoroughly pleasant event with some very interesting exhibits and speakers , I can vouch for the fact that this event was given a slightly prickly atmosphere by her presence and a slightly embarrassing atmosphere when one of her 'team' attempted to fiddle the process by vote-gerrymandering . Fortunately, for the democratic process, this was immediately stamped upon from the Chair and the Motion carried.
Mr Holloway only makes a fool of himself by attempting to :
A. Ignore the truth.
B. Discredit contributors on here.
I am sure that he's not quite as naïve as his post suggests , but with the buzzards starting to circle as they are now, he would do well in exercising a little prudence in whom he defends.