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Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads)

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Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads)

Old 20th Sep 2018, 23:22
  #4061 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 126
It seems safe to assume that TCT and her 'side' thought two years would be long enough for this to fade from people's memory and allow them to slide this through the LAA AGM on 21st October. I would suggest that the reactions here, other forums and on the Times' own website should be enough to remind them just how seriously aviators take claims of this nature and that if they persist down this route they can expect fierce resistance.

I am sure that most of those at LAA HQ will not want this on their plate and just want to get on with running an organisation that is central to private flying in the UK.. I hope they can persuade those under the TCT spell to see sense before this causes trouble between the membership and the elected committee members.

These days in aviation we forgive honest mistakes in a 'Just Culture'.. What will not be forgiven are false claims, mockery of safety procedures and the cheapening of the military by wearing their hard-earned insignia like so much jewellery. It does not surprise me that non-aviation people do not understand the strength of feeling among us but the LAA should know better.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 00:26
  #4062 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Chris Martyr View Post
@ CharlieBrem; Nice to have your input on here mate. One thing that I do find slightly embarrassing and a tad annoying though , is the way Tracey wants to palm us all off as sad, old internet trolls who resent a female intruding on 'our' male territory .
Nothing could be further from the truth ! Many of the contributors to this debate are professional people , either from the aviation industry or military people who have served the country . The airline in which I work ,openly encourages lady pilots and there are indeed many thousands of lady airline pilots these days , making an equally professional input as their male counterparts . All Tracey Curtis-Taylor does is insult these people by hiding behind this faux-1930s façade implying that they should follow her brilliant example by casting aside these perceived , virtual restrictions and all go and be pilots . Like her .
How ironic can it be that she blames the male gender for every tiny little misdemeanour that she encounters ? Especially with consideration to the fact that her expertise in manipulating daft old duffers in high places is practically legend !
She purports to emulate the female aviation pioneers of the 30's . OK,,,she's female and likes aviation . But there the likeness stops .

If she could drop this ridiculous gender issue , and if she REALLY wants recognition from the LAA's hard core of grass-roots aviators , then she should take her sponsors millions and try to re-create the global aviation feats of the amazing, fellow LAA'er ,Colin Hales . But she wouldn't . Because she couldn't ! And Colin's a bloke !!!!

And she's harping on about females in aviation being disadvantaged . Funny old world innit .

Plus one.

I have not found the LAA to be "an old-boy military network" and although women are certainly in the minority, it's an equal opportunity world for the recreational pilot as much as the professional.

CC. Person in a monoplane.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 07:43
  #4063 (permalink)  
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For those who may be reading, and perhaps less familiar with the rites of passage for a pilot, solo is a big rite of passage. Certainly the first solo, but even solo flights after that. It is a matter of great pride for a pilot to fly solo, particularly on a grand adventure. Stating that a flight was flown solo is a claim of extra importance (or probably pilots would not bother making the distinction). The fact that a pilot would state that their flight was solo is an obvious indicator of their pride in that flight as the only person aboard, who accomplished all of the required tasks themselves. Even carrying a non pilot, or a pilot who is not participating in that capacity, means that the flight was not a solo flight. Certainly a pilot can claim pride in a flight of grand adventure, and from my experience flying a Stearman, an extra long distance flight in one is an accomplishment of pride, whether solo or not. But those of us who fly solo, and describe our flight that way, would like to be thought of as the sole occupant of the aircraft for that flight - that description is fair, and unambiguous. In Canadian flight training, this has been an issue, where to earn a seaplane rating, it is required that the candidate fly five solo landings and takeoffs. The problem has been when the insurer of the training aircraft is reluctant to allow low experience solo flight in their aircraft. Instructors have been carried as non participant pilots, but doing so contravenes the intent of "solo", and has invoked ridicule - the candidate must be alone in the plane, and the instructor watching from shore. I've sat on the dock or the beach a number of times watching my student fly their five circuits - alone in the plane. Hopefully every pilot will allow those who fly a flight solo to have their pride in that accomplishment, be it a circuit, or transcontinental, by not diluting the intended meaning of "solo".
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 08:38
  #4064 (permalink)  
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I am sure that I have seen cases (maybe in the US?) where a more experienced, better qualified pilot in the passenger seat has been deemed to have some responsibility in cases of incident/accident even thought the lesser qualified pilot was “sole manipulator of the controls”...............surely that has some relevance?
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 10:59
  #4065 (permalink)  
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I also would like to add something about the solo thing.
Having another (perhaps more experienced) pilot in the aircraft, even if he/she is just there for the ride makes a big difference. Being able to ask "do you think we should ....." or even listening for silent acquiescence makes things much easier. Flying involves many judgements, some life or death, having to make those judgements yourself and by yourself is what solo means.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 11:32
  #4066 (permalink)  
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Well said Romeo Tango. I may be wrong but that may be the first time that important point has been made during this whole saga.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 12:23
  #4067 (permalink)  
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The enormous distinction between flying solo i.e. as the sole occupant of any type of aircraft and dual (i.e. with a fellow pilot) is something non-aviators would be unlikely to understand. As well as many solo trips in single piston engine aircraft around Europe and Africa I have flown the Atlantic three times in simple, slow, single pistons aircraft without autopilot and on two of those occasions without the magic of GPS. Two of those transatlantic trips were genuinely solo, the other with a fairly inexperienced private pilot. The difference it makes having 1) another pair of hands 2) someone to monitor your decision making 3) a helping hand to solve problems both in the air and on the ground and 4) just another person with you in the aeroplane is extraordinary; it's a bit like the difference between living life with a huge amount of cash in the bank instead of an overdraft having to scrape by using only your wits and luck to keep food on the table.
And what can be better to improve your illusion of being a brave and daring aviator than to have a vastly experienced (on type and in general) commercial pilot and instructor in the aeroplane with you, especially one that is very taciturn and would never "spill the beans"?

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Old 21st Sep 2018, 14:30
  #4068 (permalink)  
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What I find annoying now is that she is trying to pull the male bias card, I have found that most men in aviation are very supportive of women pilots in general and would have been condeming this just as much had it been a man making these claims as a woman, I would say she has done herself no favours by stirring this up again.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 15:06
  #4069 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Marchettiman View Post
In that article she is quoted as describing the LAA as "the old men's club of British light aviation" and then clearly goes on to describe it as a misogynistic organisation
I'm not an LAA member but I've come into contact with many of them over the years. For what it's worth they certainly don't strike me as members of anything remotely resembling an "old men's club". All the ones I know are iconoclastic, irreverent and highly individual and none of them seem at all misogynistic by temperament. In fact it's difficult to imagine them as members of a "club" at all.

TC-T's description sounds very like sour grapes to my ears.

Last edited by ACW599; 21st Sep 2018 at 21:36.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 15:54
  #4070 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ACW599 View Post
I'm not an LAA member but I've come into contact with many of them over the years. For what it's worth they certainly don't strike me as members of anything remotely resembling an "old men's club". All the ones I know are iconoclastic, irreverent and highly individual. I can barely imagine them as members of a "club" at all.

TC-T's description sounds very like sour grapes to my ears.
It is the well known tactic of “playing the man, not the ball”: a pretty infallible sign that the argument it is being used to support is specious.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 16:32
  #4071 (permalink)  
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See this response, she's been here before:

Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads)

Someone take her spade away, her digging is becoming monotonous.

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Old 21st Sep 2018, 16:36
  #4072 (permalink)  
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Was just reading in The Times what a nasty bunch of shitbags you bar stewards are😀👍
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 16:47
  #4073 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Message to Tracey

my daughter flew her first solo a couple of weeks ago- alone, on her own and responsible for her own destiny four days after her fourteenth birthday, please refrain from denigrating her achievement by purveying your sanctimonious dishonest claptrap- I know who I have more respect for and it isn’t you Tracey ...........

Last edited by Midlifec; 21st Sep 2018 at 16:48. Reason: spelling boo boo
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 18:43
  #4074 (permalink)  
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What I find a bit odd, is that a jorno puts his name to a puff piece from TCT's PR team. It is not as if he is unaware of the discussions of the veracity of it all, as he quotes them. If he did not read some of this thread, then it is hardly balanced reporting and unworthy of the Times. If he did read this thread, then the article looks even worse.

Or, influence?
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 20:15
  #4075 (permalink)  
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For those who may not have noticed but Ewald has commented on The Times article. Panic over, it was just "...probably inaccurate PR on her Africa trip". Well that's cleared it up for me.

Old 21st Sep 2018, 20:28
  #4076 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 60
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Ewald states that Ms. Curtis Taylor planned the flights, and piloted the plane, and it was a great job. Letting alone for the moment some concerns about PR accuracy, I recall some discussion about less than ideal airmanship in terms of flight through controlled or restricted airspace, some low flying, and a few damaged aircraft? Yeah, things happen from time to time, and I hope that the lessons learned from the occasions where it was less than a great job are presented in humble context, rather than seeming to be a part of the planned adventure! The just culture concept allows us to learn, forgive and move on - if the events were purely accidental, and not deliberate nor careless. In any case, a good mentoring pilot would convey that those things which did not work out so well, could have been done better.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 21:11
  #4077 (permalink)  
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The Light Aviation Association Bill Woodham Award,which she wishes to recover,is for navigation.

Whoever flew the aircraft, trying to prove she did the nav is a different kettle of fish.

As I recall she had issues on the Africa trip where she penetrated restricted airspace.This was the journey for which the award was made.

Sam Rutherford has told me on a number of occasions Tracey had problems with navigation hence issues in making the Africa movie.Ewald had to be up front after the first few hops in South Africa.

To try and claim a navigation award for such a trip is a bold move.

The landing at Goodwood at the end of that trip was in pretty dismal weather but clearly two up.

Just like Sydney Ewald was not seen after landing.
Much as I would like Tracey to prove me wrong there is no evidence out there to illustrate any cross country solo flights she has ever made.

Last edited by Mike Flynn; 21st Sep 2018 at 22:20.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 21:23
  #4078 (permalink)  
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Come along now Ewald !
The "old biplane" was in better condition than it was when new [ask your guys in Hungary]
The only reason the 'S' word keeps coming up with monotonous bloody regularity , is because your co-pilot kept telling everyone that she was !
So she "planned the trips & piloted the aeroplane" . Really !,,,,No Sh*t Sherlock . [ nowt to do with a certain Mr S. Rutherford then]
And who are the "jealous individuals" to whom you refer ?
Not the ones who self-finance their own flying by any chance is it ? You know , the ones like that British bloke Colin Hales by any chance ?

You've kept yourself reasonably out of ridicules way for most of this debacle . Don't go dropping your guard at this late stage mate !
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 21:34
  #4079 (permalink)  
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Ewalds comments are interesting, IIRC he has stated he wasn’t the pilot, TCT has stated the reason someone/anyone was in the front seat was as a casual ride-along for crew and guests just for the experience (a treat! If you will). So his comments about the journey inspiring young women to dream of flying aside, was he paying the project for his seemingly excessive airtime or was he being remunerated for his presence in the plane and out on those journeys, and if so what was he being paid for ? Or was he volunteering to inspire others and perhaps should be recognised for those efforts with trophy of his own, or if he was a paid member of the crew what was his job description or scope of work.it just doesn’t add up as to why he was there.

Ewald ,,, go on indulge me. Why were you there?
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 21:44
  #4080 (permalink)  
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So his comments about the journey inspiring young women to dream of flying aside
When I'm trying to inspire new people toward aviation, I take them flying, rather than an experienced pilot who already owns a plane!
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