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Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads)

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Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads)

Old 1st Nov 2016, 12:32
  #2281 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks Stanwell, I've read it now. Apparently they resent the certificate with the word solo removed. I guess it now reads 'For her Flight from the UK to Sydney, Australia'.

Something for all the visiting female flight crew to look forward to at Kingsford Smith every morning then.
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Old 1st Nov 2016, 12:50
  #2282 (permalink)  
 
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strake (#2448), p.p. "Times" (?),

Flew 60 hours on the PT-17 on my Primary School with the U.S. Army Air Corps (the "Arnold Scheme") in 1941. The Stearman could be flown from front or back. Instructor always flew in front, stude always in back (from which they had removed ASI, to make flying training more interesting for us). No intercom, Instructor had a series of hand signals to communicate with stude behind, or just throttled back and bawled at him. Worked fine.

Solo Instructor always flew in front, solo stude always in back.

"Cannot be started from front". In PT-17 (220hp Continental), true. A hand crank a foot or so behind engine on port side needed a mech to wind up flywheel on inertia starter. No idea what starting arrangements are with 300 hp Lycoming (?), which is what we have here, or 450 hp Wasp Junior, which I believe was fitted for crop-spray conversions and wing-walkers long after the war.

IMHO, the ideal military biplane trainer, tough as old boots (needed to be, with us !) Will fly for ever. Bigger, heavier, stronger than our contempory Tiger Moth.

That's about it.

Danny42C.
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Old 1st Nov 2016, 13:14
  #2283 (permalink)  
 
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Hello Danny,

As always, thanks for your fascinating insight from the time. I think clairprop's link above complements your point completely. I suppose the Stearman trainers in those images are being flown by instructors. An unkinder soul than I might suggest some still are...
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Old 1st Nov 2016, 14:04
  #2284 (permalink)  
 
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Did you actually have a pilot licence Tracey?

If you want to cover your online footprints it's pretty easy to edit your Wiki page, remove incriminating quotes from your own web site, and ask others (Ewald perhaps?) to do likewise, but it's almost impossible to eradicate the history of places you've flown to and from in an aircraft, and the dates on which such flights took place. Even if one managed to alter the records at a particular airfield (no suggestion that you did) there are so many other traces, especially when it is mandatory to file a flight plan if one intends to cross an international FIR boundary. And even without access to the massive Eurocontrol computer, there's a wealth of information out there on planespotting and photo sharing sites.

Fortunately I didn't need to trial through any of these resources because Ewald, in a piece on the restoration of N56200 that is included in his 3G Classic Aviation website, gives the detail.

After this Stearman had mastered its first "long range flight" from our Austrian/Hungarian base to England, piloted by Tracey Curtis-Taylor, the airplane was on display at one of the largest airshows worldwide: THE ROYAL INTERNATIONAL AIR TATTOO, where the airplane was awarded with the first prize for its technical quality and appearance...
So in July 2013 the aircraft was in the UK, having been flown there by TCT from Hungary (or possibly Austria, but it makes no difference as you will read later).

What's interesting about this is that it took until 23rd September 2013 for TCT to obtain an FAA Pilot Certificate, and without one of these (or at least a temporary certificate) all of the flights that she carried out during the transit in her American registered Stearman across Europe to England would have been flown illegally.

For the benefit of those unfamiliar with the rules, here is an explanation:

TCT's Stearman is registered in the USA, and as such operation of the aircraft must be iaw the American CFR (Code of Federal Regulations), and the laws of the country over or within which the aircraft is operated if flown outside of the USA.

In respect of pilot licencing the American regulations may be found in CFR › Title 14 › Chapter I › Subchapter D › Part 61 › Subpart A › Section 61.3 which state:

§ 61.3 Requirement for certificates, ratings, and authorizations.

(a) Required pilot certificate for operating a civil aircraft of the United States. No person may serve as a required pilot flight crewmember of a civil aircraft of the United States, unless that person:

(1) Has in the person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that pilot certificate or authorization -

(i) A pilot certificate issued under this part and in accordance with § 61.19;

(ii) A special purpose pilot authorization issued under § 61.77;

(iii) A temporary certificate issued under § 61.17;

(iv) A document conveying temporary authority to exercise certificate privileges issued by the Airmen Certification Branch under § 61.29(e); or

(v) When operating an aircraft within a foreign country, a pilot license issued by that country may be used.
Prior to obtaining her FAA licence TCT was only in possession of an EASA (European) Private Pilots Licence that was issued by the UK Civil Aviation Authority. Therefore in line with (v) above, without an FAA licence she was fully entitled to operate an American registered aircraft in the UK, as soon as it arrived there.

However (unless she was in possession of a temporary certificate or special purpose authorization issued by the FAA) she most certainly would NOT have been entitled or licenced to fly the Stearman within or over any other country or state on the flight from Hungary (or Austria) to the UK, as the following letter from the FAA's Assistant Chief Counsel for Regulations makes perfectly clear:

U.S.Department
of Transportation
Federal Aviation
Administration
AUG 2 0 2009
Mr. Barry S. M. Condell
FinbarCondell0lBIue Yonder.co.uk
Office of the Chief Counsel 800 Independence Ave., S.W.
Washington, D.C. 20591

This responds to your email to Mr. James Whitlow of April 17, 2009, requesting an interpretation of 14 CFR 61.3(a)(1).

Section 61.3(a)(1) provides in pertinent part that when a U.S. registered aircraft "is operated within a foreign country, a current pilot license issued by the country in which the aircraft is operated may be used."

You ask whether the use of phrase "issued by the country" is interpreted by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) as also meaning "issued under the law of a Contracting State to the European Economic Area" in the situation where various countries have entered into agreements for "the mutual acceptance of personnel licenses for the exercise of functions in civil aviation?"

The answer is that the FAA does not interpret the phase "issued by the country" as including "issued under the law of a Contracting State to the European Economic Area." The rule is expressly limited to a pilot certificate issued by the specific country within which the operation will take place.

This response was prepared by Michael E. Chase, Manager of the Air Traffic and
Airmen Airport Certification Law Branch in the Regulations Division of the Office of Chief Counsel, and coordinated with the General Aviation Division of Flight Standards Service. If you have additional questions regarding this matter, please contact us at your convenience at (202) 267-3073.

Rebecca B.
Assistant Chief Counsel for Regulations, AGC-200
So Tracey with the above in mind, did you have ANY licence or special authorization issued by the FAA that would have made it possible for you to conduct the mentioned flights legally?
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Old 1st Nov 2016, 14:14
  #2285 (permalink)  
 
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Unless, of course, she was accompanied by a suitable qualified and experienced pilot.
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Old 1st Nov 2016, 14:20
  #2286 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting find, deefer dog, but might be irrelevant if Ewald was in the front........
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Old 1st Nov 2016, 14:22
  #2287 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Forfoxake View Post
Interesting find, deefer dog, but might be irrelevant if Ewald was in the front........
...and on the balance of probabilities he most likely was.
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Old 1st Nov 2016, 14:25
  #2288 (permalink)  
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Well spotted deefer dog.

Now someone needs to email the details and questions to Tim Kelly.
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Old 1st Nov 2016, 14:28
  #2289 (permalink)  
 
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In addition to stating that TCT flew the aircraft, Ewald was issued with his FAA licence on exactly the same day as TCT, after the flight to UK.

His licence was issued by Austrian authority which would not permit him to fly an American registered aircraft anywhere other than in or over Austria.

(Unless he also had a temporary permit or special authorization).
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Old 1st Nov 2016, 14:31
  #2290 (permalink)  
 
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So can we see the GAR form for the delivery flight?
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Old 1st Nov 2016, 14:57
  #2291 (permalink)  
 
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I was just wondering about the issue of temporary notes.

Looking at my own 61.75 licence, it was issued 24 Sept 2003. My logbook shows it has having been first used on 30 September 2003.

My recollection is that I got my licence from the Los Angeles FSDO, but it was a scrappy bit of paper - they then posted the plastic licence to me some months later. However, this does seem to show that the plastic licence is backdated to when the paper temporary cover slip was first issues.

So yes, Deefer appears to be correct.

G
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Old 1st Nov 2016, 15:24
  #2292 (permalink)  
 
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So, a woman who wants to inspire other women to be pilots, while she flies a plane, was doing so without a valid license, and got awards in the mean time?

Gosh, I can't get past those many athletes about whom I've read, who were required to surrender awards, when they were found to be cheating.
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Old 1st Nov 2016, 16:03
  #2293 (permalink)  
 
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I've worked on Wiki pages before and been involved in "editorial wars" . I think this one should be allowed to run and run as the "Talk" ,"View History" and "this articles entry" (for deletion) threads provide an indelible audit trail of the double talk, foot stamping and deceit over its period of existence . All part of the case history.......
NB from earlier this year ( 9th January) :

"In 1997, Curtis-Taylor worked on the Flying Legends airshow at Duxford, Oxfordshire.[8]

She was the first female pilot to work at the Shuttleworth Collection of vintage planes at Biggleswade.[9]

In 2012, Curtis-Taylor was part of a team of Russian pilots who flew a three-month journey from Kiev to Cape Town.[10]

In 2013, Curtis-Taylor flew a 13,000km solo flight from Cape Town to England, following the 1928 flight of Mary, Lady Heath.[11]

In 2015-2016, Curtis-Taylor flew a vintage 1942 biplane 21,000km from Farnborough, England, to Sydney, Australia, emulating the journey of pioneer aviator Amy Johnson.[12] In 1930, Johnson was the first woman to fly solo from England to Australia. Although Curtis-Taylor was the only person to fly the plane on her journey, she had a team of engineers and a camera crew travelling in a separate aircraft.[13]"

The links in brackets make interesting sources for cross referencing ,if anybody cares to look.

Last edited by Haraka; 1st Nov 2016 at 16:53.
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Old 1st Nov 2016, 16:04
  #2294 (permalink)  
 
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If the answers to these questions about BOTH Ms Curtis-Taylor AND Mr Gritsch's licences are that they were not properly licensed, presumably that means they would also have been flying without valid insurances, at least during some parts of the flight? Given Ms Curtis-Taylor's apparent propensity for breaking things, perhaps we should all breath a sigh of relief?

That said, I find it a bit hard to believe that Mr Gritsch wouldn't have been properly licensed as he restores and maintains a number of these aircraft many of which I would guess are N-reg and which he would need to fly.

Last edited by Jonzarno; 1st Nov 2016 at 17:27. Reason: To reflect correctly the content of the post to which this is a reply.
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Old 1st Nov 2016, 16:32
  #2295 (permalink)  
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If it turns out that the Stearman was flown illegally from Hungary to the UK then HCAP have once again, got it wrong. The latest citation read (IIRC).....


Is it recognition of:-

'Organising an aviation expedition from the UK to Australia'

Perhaps the 5th draft will get it right ?
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Old 1st Nov 2016, 17:23
  #2296 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Haraka View Post
I've worked on Wiki pages before and been involved in "editorial wars" . I think this one should be allowed to run and run as the "Talk" ,"View History" and "this articles entry" (for deletion) threads provide an indelible audit trail of the double talk, foot stamping and deceit over its period of existence . All part of the case history.......
NB from earlier this year ( 9th January) :

"In 1997, Curtis-Taylor worked on the Flying Legends airshow at Duxford, Oxfordshire.[8]

She was the first female pilot to work at the Shuttleworth Collection of vintage planes at Biggleswade.[9]

In 2012, Curtis-Taylor was part of a team of Russian pilots who flew a three-month journey from Kiev to Cape Town.[10]

In 2013, Curtis-Taylor flew a 13,000km solo flight from Cape Town to England, following the 1928 flight of Mary, Lady Heath.[11]

In 2015-2016, Curtis-Taylor flew a vintage 1942 biplane 21,000km from Farnborough, England, to Sydney, Australia, emulating the journey of pioneer aviator Amy Johnson.[12] In 1930, Johnson was the first woman to fly solo from England to Australia. Although Curtis-Taylor was the only person to fly the plane on her journey, she had a team of engineers and a camera crew travelling in a separate aircraft.[13]"

The links in brackets make interesting sources for cross referencing ,if anybody cares to look.
It increasingly strikes me that the aviation accomplishments of TCT are very minimal, but the controversy about her flights and awards is actually the most interesting and significant part of her life achievements to date. If the page isn't deleted on the grounds of her aeronautical insignificance, it should probably now be massively restructured to major on what is actually important - the controversies.

G
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Old 1st Nov 2016, 17:26
  #2297 (permalink)  
 
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Is there any record, any record at all of TCT correcting anyone for mistakenly using the term "solo" during an interview, having made an introductory speech or having being handed an award?

There seem so many cases where she's apparently been quite content to bask under someone else's "solo" description. Surely she must have corrected this glaring error on occasion? Mustn't she?

What about press releases etc, has she ever corrected those where "solo" was erroneously stated?
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Old 1st Nov 2016, 18:10
  #2298 (permalink)  
 
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She was the first female pilot to work at the Shuttleworth Collection of vintage planes at Biggleswade.[9]
She absolutely, categorically, was not the first female pilot to "work" at the Shuttleworth Collection.

1) TCT has never flown a Shuttleworth Collection aeroplane, either solo privately or in a display. There is an outside possibility that she might have flown as a passenger in a Collection aeroplane.

2) The definition of a Collection pilot is someone who has flown a Collection aeroplane, in an air display. There are at least two other female pilots who have flown Collection aeroplanes, a long time before Tracey turned up with her own aeroplanes. Because they weren't taken on as permanent display pilots, they aren't recognised as Collection pilots officially. Anyone with any common sense would admit that the fact they'd flown Collection aeroplanes really does make them fit the description of female pilots working with the Collection far more closely than TCT does.

3) Meanwhile there have been a number of female pilots who have worked at the Shuttleworth Collection, albeit not as Collection pilots (but then, neither was she a Collection pilot). Their contribution has been considerable and continues to this day.

4) The first official female Collection pilot was Clare Tector, however she herself openly agrees that those earlier flights beat her to the mark.
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Old 1st Nov 2016, 18:44
  #2299 (permalink)  
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Again, why sweat the small stuff? Stick to the smoking gun of her pants being on fire.

Nobody cares if she made flights a couple of days too soon for her license. Being slapdash goes with the "adventurer" narrative the public likes.
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Old 1st Nov 2016, 19:25
  #2300 (permalink)  
 
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Small stuff? No small beer for the following who were reported by the UK CAA and subsequently CONVICTED of flying without a licence:

Mark E in 2011 charged with two offences of acting as flight crew of N-registered aircraft without holding an appropriate licence (Article 61(a) ANO)

John H in 2011 faced Lincoln Crown Court - did not have a current, valid pilot’s licence when the flight was made.

Lee P pleaded guilty in 2011 to flying without a pilot's licence (Article 50, Air Navigation Order 2009)

Paul H: 2012...Guilty of acting as commander of G-XXXX without holding a pilot’s licence
(Article 50(1), Air Navigation Order 2009);

Paul H: 2012...Guilty of acting as commander of N-XXXX without holding a pilot’s licence
(Article 61(b), Air Navigation Order 2009)

I don't have time to carry on for the next four years, but I'm sure you get the gist. It's all on the CAA web site anyway, and some of the fines are staggering.
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