How long are your landings?
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How long are your landings?
I was watching the 172s pound circuits for a bit this afternoon, as well as a couple of really skillfully flown taildraggers. I considered how long their landings were - not in the runway distance used sense, but rather how long was each pilot landing the plane, from the time (and place on the runway) where the first wheel touched, to the point at which it appeared that the pilot was no longer attempting to control the aircraft as it moved through the air.
I watched a pilot three point a 172, and very shortly after saw the elevator droop so as to suggest that the pilot had entirely released the controls. That pilot did not land the airplane for very long.
I watched another pilot, in a gentle crosswind, neatly put down the upwind main wheel of his Citabria, hold the other one off a ways, then later settle the tail gently down, and turn off the runway with the stick held back, and the ailerons still into the crosswind. Nice...
And generally I saw a group of pilots land the club 172s, and devote some effort to keeping a wing low into the crosswind, and holding the nose up throughout the landing - good effort.
It seems to me that the longer you spend landing the plane, the better chance of flying a nice landing! The drop it on, and forget about it, not so much....
I watched a pilot three point a 172, and very shortly after saw the elevator droop so as to suggest that the pilot had entirely released the controls. That pilot did not land the airplane for very long.
I watched another pilot, in a gentle crosswind, neatly put down the upwind main wheel of his Citabria, hold the other one off a ways, then later settle the tail gently down, and turn off the runway with the stick held back, and the ailerons still into the crosswind. Nice...
And generally I saw a group of pilots land the club 172s, and devote some effort to keeping a wing low into the crosswind, and holding the nose up throughout the landing - good effort.
It seems to me that the longer you spend landing the plane, the better chance of flying a nice landing! The drop it on, and forget about it, not so much....
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I watched a pilot three point a 172, and very shortly after saw the elevator droop so as to suggest that the pilot had entirely released the controls. That pilot did not land the airplane for very long.
Look at the number of collapsed noselegs in the monthly AAIB reports. Each one of those will entail an expensive airframe repair and engine rebuild (shock loaded) and and probably a new prop. The 'pilots' (I hesitate to call them that) may walk away from such aeroplane damage, but everyone who flies pays for their ham fistedness through their insurance premiums. Insurance is there to cover the unforeseeable, but here it is paying for entirely predictable 'pilot' induced damage.
Why were the tailwheel pilots displaying more skill? Because tailwheel aeroplanes don't let you get away with sloppy technique as trikes do.
Last edited by Shaggy Sheep Driver; 14th Apr 2016 at 10:31.
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I fly a taildragger and get seriously jealous of the trike pilots that come in on a crosswind without a care in the world about touching down with a bit of drift or crab knowing for the most part the CG position will swing then round straight, whereas I'm on the rudders peddling 10 to the penny deathly afraid of any crab or drift and the potential humiliation of a ground loop. It's like you have to "earn" a proper landing every damn time, crosswind or not. Who says fear is not a good motivator ?
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It's like you have to "earn" a proper landing every damn time, crosswind or not. Who says fear is not a good motivator ?
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If you're used to flying C150/PA28, C172 may seem a bit more prone to three-pointers, at least from my limited experience.. if it's not trimmed well, it's quite difficult to flare it nicely
as for myself, as a grass-field dweller, letting the elevator go is not an option
as for myself, as a grass-field dweller, letting the elevator go is not an option
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. I flew with, who had a respectable amount of taildragger time, were some of the most accomplished aviators I had the pleasure to learn from.
Avoid imitations
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I usually land with zero knots groundspeed but keep flying until well after the engines are shut down..
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If you're used to flying C150/PA28, C172 may seem a bit more prone to three-pointers, at least from my limited experience.. if it's not trimmed well, it's quite difficult to flare it nicely
When I used to meat bomb with one the jumpmaster would sit in the open doorway during the return flight and landing (static line drops, RH door removed) and give marks out of ten for minimal flexing of the main gear leg as the RH tyre kissed the tarmac, fully held off of course. The frequent short flights in meat bombing does wonders for one's landing currency!
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First, it should be trimmed. Second, the 172 has absolutely appalling ailerons, to the extent I often wondered if they were even connected to the yoke. The elevators, however, are superb and allow very fine pitch control down to the very lowest airspeeds. There is NO excuse for 3-pointing one.
When I used to meat bomb with one the jumpmaster would sit in the open doorway during the return flight and landing (static line drops, RH door removed) and give marks out of ten for minimal flexing of the main gear leg as the RH tyre kissed the tarmac, fully held off of course. The frequent short flights in meat bombing does wonders for one's landing currency!
When I used to meat bomb with one the jumpmaster would sit in the open doorway during the return flight and landing (static line drops, RH door removed) and give marks out of ten for minimal flexing of the main gear leg as the RH tyre kissed the tarmac, fully held off of course. The frequent short flights in meat bombing does wonders for one's landing currency!
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I quite agree and the 172 electric flaps don't help. Seem to take forever to wind in and out.
The PA 28 flaps are much more manoeuvrable and quickly usable in a go around.
That handbrake style lever gives variable flaps to suit and you can pull it up and down to suit the circumstances. Reminds me of the collective on a helicopter.
I love the flaps on the Piper family which assist getting in and out of short strips.
The PA 28 flaps are much more manoeuvrable and quickly usable in a go around.
That handbrake style lever gives variable flaps to suit and you can pull it up and down to suit the circumstances. Reminds me of the collective on a helicopter.
I love the flaps on the Piper family which assist getting in and out of short strips.
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Can? Must! There is a very thin borderline between taxiing and becoming airborne during a fast (dual) backtrack.... https://youtu.be/O2C5hkS22Mg?t=4m12s
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SSD, how do you know it wasn't taking off;-)
But yes, that is certainly an example of a very nicely flown landing, where the "aircraft" is being flown as far through the landing as possible.
I'm sure that for nearly all of us, we are flying, and in particular landing, because we really enjoy it. So why not enjoy it as far through the landing as possible - fly as long as you can!
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Pilot DAR, thanks for that. I'm a bit of a novice.
On a more serious note I agree with you. However, one issue for me was that during training (and circuit bashing specifically) I was always anxious to get the plane down as soon as possible to have as much runway ahead of me for the "go" part of the touch and go. That is a hard habit to break, but (for me) the trick is to relax and let nature take its course.
On a more serious note I agree with you. However, one issue for me was that during training (and circuit bashing specifically) I was always anxious to get the plane down as soon as possible to have as much runway ahead of me for the "go" part of the touch and go. That is a hard habit to break, but (for me) the trick is to relax and let nature take its course.