Renting aircraft abroad in Europe as PPL

[Emkay]

I am getting bored of flying around in England and want to try something new.

My renewal period is also closing in fast so I need to complete 8 hours before the end of June.

I am thinking of going abroad to a beautiful place for a few days, and renting an aircraft there and finishing my hours that way. I have an EASA PPL(A).

Does anyone have any experiences doing something similar? Any countries you recommend? Is this sort of thing even possible / practical?

Would appreciate some guidance

[Jan Olieslagers]

I am sure a recommendation for "Fly In Spain" is to follow shortly, and it might perhaps be an answer for you.

You did not make it very clear though, what you mean by "a beautiful place" - there's many places and many preferences.

[Maoraigh1]

If you're nearing the end of your SEP Rating, needing 8 hours to stay valid, you're probably not current, and may require more dual check-out time before renting solo. Your best bet might be somewhere you're already known - and an area you're familiar with.

[Fly4Business]

How many total flight time experience? As a low-timer and with little recency you will face quite some trouble to find somebody renting an aircraft to you and it may be wise. Also insurance will not be happy with you. Why not rent an aircraft where they know you and fly cross channel? Europe is big and has a surprising number of enchanted places to fly to all over, so choose wherever you want.

[ecosse]

How many hours have you done In england since passing your gst 1.5 years ago?

Ive done over 80h in last 10 months or so and still learning a lot!! I wouldn't tackle europe now, I think you need some more experience before tackling Europe!!!

Just my opinion, but if i were you I would use my money and do some aerobatics or and advanced flying here, you will be better placed for hire abroad after that!

After my 1st year as a licence holder I am having some advanced handling instruction, mainly due to some confidence issues of flying in weather/turblulence but thats another story!!

Being adventurous is a good thing, but being confident and just jumping in and going with low hours/currency is a bad thing IMHO. (NOT SAYING THIS IS YOU!!)

anyways, good luck and maybe try and find a fellow PPL holder and go on a Europe Trip, Thats what I would do if i were in lower england!

Kenny P

[Emkay]

Thanks for your input guys

I have done about 60 hours in total, and about 10 hours in past 12 months, so not that much experience at all

I am thinking of going to California and spending 3 hours or so with instructors there before going solo, is that a better idea?

On my rating it says Date of Rating Test 16/05/2014 and Valid until 31/05/2016

Does this mean that I have to conduct 12 hours between 16/05/2015 and 31/05/2016?

[Maoraigh1]

You've got your FAA piggyback. You'll need a 2 hour BFR even if you're flying is perfect. Spain lost California long before joining EASAland.
11 hours solo and 1 with an EASA instructor in the 12 months before 31/05/2016.
Your piggyback will not be valid unless your EASA licence is valid.

[riverrock83]

Why not come up and fly in Scotland?
Beautiful countryside, we speak the right language, no legal issues.
You could fly yourself up (good experience to work out how to manage longer journeys) or you could hire up here...

[DLT1939]

I am not sure if the OP already has a piggyback, but this statement is incorrect:

Your piggyback will not be valid unless your EASA licence is valid.

FAR 61.19(c) states...The holder of a pilot certificate issued on the basis of a foreign pilot license may exercise the privileges of that certificate only while that person's foreign pilot license is effective.

An EASA licence remains "effective" if it has not been suspended or revoked, regardless of whether the ratings on the licence are valid or not.

Provided the holder of a piggyback certificate issued under FAR 61.75 has completed a flight review under FAR 61.56 and complies with the recency requirements of FAR 61.57, he can use that certificate to fly a N reg aircraft even though his EASA ratings are not current.

The same applies to medical certificates. Provided the pilot holds a current FAA medical, he does not need a valid EASA medical certificate to fly a N reg aircraft.

[VladimirPuchar]

Hello.
Did you think about flying in Czech Republic? Aircraft costs here about 145 euros plus some add fees in international airports as landing and comm fees. But if you wanna be proffesional pilot one day it's worthy... What you think?

[worldpilot]

Enkay wrote:

I have done about 60 hours in total, and about 10 hours in past 12 months, so not that much experience at all

With this number of hours flown in two years, if properly managed, it represents a solid basis of flying experience.


Renting an aircraft in any EASA country shouldn't be a problem, if you fully understand the underpinnings of the aircraft you are renting and you are able to confidently exercise your handling skills to an acceptable level during a checkride.


WP

[LTCTerry]

FAR 61.19(c) states...The holder of a pilot certificate issued on the basis of a foreign pilot license may exercise the privileges of that certificate only while that person's foreign pilot license is effective.

An EASA licence remains "effective" if it has not been suspended or revoked, regardless of whether the ratings on the licence are valid or not.

Provided the holder of a piggyback certificate issued under FAR 61.75 has completed a flight review under FAR 61.56 and complies with the currency requirements of FAR 61.57, he can use that certificate to fly a N reg aircraft even though his EASA ratings are not current.

I have to disagree. Part 61.19 has to do with expiration of a certificate, not whether you are current to fly. Just because it hasn't expired doesn't mean you can exercise its privileges.


A certificate issued under 61.75 is not an independent ICAO certificate. It is issued "on the basis of" another certificate. All underlying currency requirements of the foreign certificate must be met. If used as the basis for further ratings or certificates it must be revalidated.


If you can't fly today on your EASA licence then you can't fly today on your Part 61.75 FAA certificate. Unless I'm wrong, in which case I'll be happy to be corrected. (But 61.19.(c) is not the answer.)


Terry

[Fly4Business]

Thanks @LTCTerry to get this straight. The piggyback FAA PPL states on the back of the card: issued on the basis of and valid only when accompanied by <country> pilot license No.XYZ. All limitations and restrictions on the <country> license apply = Inheritance of limitations and restrictions from foreign to FAA. Even if you pass your US BFR, you cannot execute privileges of your FAA PPL unless EASA current.

[Heebicka]

Czech Rep, Prague, cheap to get here, cheap to stay here, you can have plane from 100GBP wet at LKLT which is five minutes walking from tube station....

[DLT1939]

If you can't fly today on your EASA licence then you can't fly today on your Part 61.75 FAA certificate. Unless I'm wrong, in which case I'll be happy to be corrected.

John Lynch of the FAA used to provide a Part-61 FAQ. It bore the following notes:

Disclaimer Statement: The answers provided to the questions in this website are not legal interpretations. Only the FAA's Office of Chief Counsel and Regional Chief Counsel provide legal interpretations. The FAA's Office of Chief Counsel does not review this website nor does it disseminate legal interpretations through it. However, there are some answers provided in this website where the FAA Office of Chief Counsel's legal interpretations have been reprinted.

The answers in this website address Frequently Asked Questions on 14 CFR Part 61 and represents FAA Flight Standards Service policy as it relates to this regulation. The answers are in response to questions from FAA Flight Standards Service’s Regional Offices, District Offices, and concerned people from the public. The answers reflect FAA Flight Standards Service’s policy for the purpose of standardization.

While the document has now been withdrawn, I have no reason to believe the policy has changed. It addresses the issue at hand directly:

[The first part of the question was about whether a current rating is required for an initial 61.75 issue – the answer was no.]

QUESTION: Secondly, it is my understanding that once a § 61.75 U.S. pilot certificate is issued, it confers piloting privileges (provided the pilot holds the required Part 67 medical certificate and is § 61.56 flight review current, § 61.57 current, and is § 61.58 PIC current if § 61.58 applies for the kind of aircraft being flown), irrespective of the absence of current foreign proficiency checks on the foreign pilot license. Under U.S. rules the person’s foreign pilot license must remain effective [pursuant to § 61.19(c)], but again the word effective means the license has not been “surrendered, suspended, revoked, or expired” [See § 61.19(f)]. In other words, under the U.S. rule, the lapsing of a pilot's foreign proficiency check does not mean the person’s foreign pilot license has been “surrendered, suspended, revoked, or expired.” A foreign pilot license remains “effective” even if the pilot may not exercise the privileges of that license (because the pilot had not completed a U.K. proficiency check). Is my understanding, that under these circumstances the foreign pilot may still exercise the privileges of his § 61.75 U.S. Private Pilot Certificate, accurate?

ANSWER: Ref. § 61.75(e)(3), A person may still exercise the privileges of his U.S. § 61.75 pilot certificate provided the person has met U.S. Part 61 currency and recency of experience requirements. The exercising of a person’s U.S. § 61.75 pilot certificate is not contingent on whether a person has completed his U.K. proficiency check. Only when a person’s foreign pilot license has been “surrendered, suspended, revoked, or expired” does it effect the privileges of the person’s U.S. § 61.75 pilot certificate.
{Q&A-656}

QUESTION: Finally, it is my understanding that the fact that the foreign pilot license bears a lapsed proficiency check does not mean the FAA considers the foreign pilot license has been is limited or restricted under § 61.75(e)(3)? It is my understanding that the phrase “limitations and restrictions” under § 61.75(e)(3) refers only to pilot-specific restrictions such as prohibitions from night flying. Is this correct?

ANSWER: Ref. § 61.75(e)(3), Even if a person’s foreign pilot license bears a lapsed proficiency check it would not effect the operating privileges of that person’s U.S. § 61.75 pilot certificate.

[DLT1939]

The piggyback FAA PPL states on the back of the card: issued on the basis of and valid only when accompanied by <country> pilot license No.XYZ. All limitations and restrictions on the <country> license apply

The FAA interpret this wording narrowly; see the attached Chief Counsel's ruling.
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...rpretation.pdf

So, for example, a 61.75 certificate holder can fly a N reg single engine turbine even though his EASA licence is SEP only as that is not a limitation on the face of the licence unlike, say, "Day VFR only".

[alex90]

I know this strayed onto flying in the USA - of which I know nothing about... BUT:

I would recommend hiring a plane from your flight school / someone local to you. I know a guy at Biggin who rents his Cessna152 for not very much at all. You could then fly over, go down to south of Spain, or head over Croatia way, could be a load of fun, especially if you share the ride with someone who is like minded! :-)

I'll let you get back to your debate about FAA law....

[sapperkenno]

Having read some of your other posts, I am building a picture of someone living near London, who did a PPL in Inverness, who lacks confidence in flying around their local area... Nothing wrong with that at all, but I feel someone who has done their research, with a genuine passion for this flying lark wouldn't be on here asking these sorts of questions. Money can't be a major issue if there's a consideration to go abroad, when travelling can be expensive. So it can't be the cost that's putting you off in the UK.
Up north we knock out C150/152 at £100/hour wet, with no home landing fees. 8 hours you could have done over a weekend, so I don't understand the panic to get done by June. I know other PPL holding hour builders who will have done close to 80 hours by the time June comes around! I found that part quite amusing, also the fact you've around 60 hours of flying in the UK and now it bores you. I spoiled myself flying 200 odd hours in the States, over the Grand Canyon and all that, but have never had a boring day's flying over the other 1400 hours I've done over the years here in the UK.
I would be more than willing to help - as an instructor it would be nice to inject some fun into your flying, and build your confidence so you don't feel the need to run off abroad and avoid getting to grips with flying here! Yorkshire isn't all that bad in the scenery department either.

I may be completely wrong, and don't mean any offence by what I've written! Keep us posted.

[BackPacker]

My renewal period is also closing in fast so I need to complete 8 hours before the end of June.

In order to renew your SEP rating after the two-year period, you either revalidate by experience (12 hours in the last year, including one with an instructor) OR revalidate by test. A lot of people tend to forget that last option.

Assuming you're proficient and current in the first place, a revalidation by test will be much, much cheaper than a revalidation by experience in your case. Sure, the examiner may cost a little more, but there is no minimum flight duration for such a revalidation test so you may well be finished in less than an hour. And you don't need to do the senseless and costly boring-holes-in-the-sky-for-eight-hours.

Having said that, have you asked yourself why you have not reached those 12 hours already spontaneously? And will your circumstances/motivation change in the next few years so that you do get to fly more? A lot of people tend to throw good money after bad, once they've had their PPL for a few years, just to stay minimally current and legal, but never get to enjoy the flying. Don't be one of those. If your motivation has gone, have the guts to admit it and simply suspend your flying for a while. It's relatively easy to pick it back up once the motivation is back, even if your license has lapsed.