Landing in a plowed field Risky? Safe?

[Genghis the Engineer]

Originally Posted by Pace

The first and most important is to always keep the aircraft flying. Many fixate on one landing area and stall stretching the glide and that is the killer

Couldn't agree more, but this seems to me as a regular flyer with existing PPLs, that much of this is down to poor instruction.

It seems to be the FI norm that pilots flying PFLs have been taught to pick a field, and then do everything they can to make *that* field, as if doing so is some kind of point scoring game.

I see very very few PPLs when I practice PFLs with them - usually on checkouts and biennials - who show the capacity and wisdom to keep their landing site under review and change it as, when and if necessary to ensure an approach to a good landing site.

(I see other faults as well, but that's one of the most common. I suppose as also a microlight pilot still flying 2-strokes regularly, I am a unashamedly a bit of a PFL / field landing best-practice obsessive).

G

[KyleTheAviator]

Thanks for all the replies.

Sounds liked seeded and rolled, or a short growing crop should be ok? But fresh plowed is a no go, and a 'tater' field would definitely be a disaster

Looking for evidence i found these on youtube:

• Emergency plowed field landing https://youtu.be/5xMpOimIN2Y

• This ones a tail drager, think field has been seeded. seems to land fine https://youtu.be/hF3OewqQsNA

Makes me wonder about the setup of crop dusters, because they are always landing in fields

[vector4fun]

Years ago, saw a student land a C150 in a plowed field after engine failed to respond turning base. Instructor, I and several others went to inspect plane found no damage, fuel in tanks, and engine ran fine. (suspect student pulled mixture rather than carb heat? Will never know) Anyway, instructor climbed in, we assisted in getting it to end of field and turned around by pushing on struts, instructor made short/soft field takeoff and returned plane to airport un-damaged. This was in Texas in summer, so field was pretty dry, but a student did manage to land without damage or flipping. Landing and departure were parallel the furrows. I wouldn't fear landing my 172 in a typical Texas field, C210 might be more of a problem though, with a lot more weight on nose.

[KyleTheAviator]

Years ago, saw a student land a C150 in a plowed field after engine failed to respond turning base. Instructor, I and several others went to inspect plane found no damage, fuel in tanks, and engine ran fine. (suspect student pulled mixture rather than carb heat? Will never know)

Glad they made it down safe with no injuries or damage. I was actually just reading an article about the first Cirrus pilot in Australia to deploy the aircraft's ballistic parachute. He lost oil pressure at 5,000ft, engine seized, and at 2,000 he deployed the chute. System worked, only minor injuries, landing gear was totally wrecked (but its designed to do that to absorb the impact). But the STRANGE thing is, for a pilot who claims to have 1950 hours, he didnt he attempt to glide her down for a short field landing. If you look at the pic there is tons of flat, hard field...

(Maybe he just wanted to be the first in Oz to test the chute )

I wouldn't fear landing my 172 in a typical Texas field, C210 might be more of a problem though, with a lot more weight on nose.

I was considering the C210 for its speed, but thinking more about the risk of landing out. Ive been thinking maybe a traildragger would be safer. Something like the RV-7. I would have to get some kind of taildragger rating, and im not even sure if anyone hires them here. But i think its got to be a safer option?

[Pace]

I agree that was an awful chute pull decision but I have read worse. One I could not get my head around was one Cirrus pilot who pulled the chute for loss of airspeed indication due to an ice blocked pitot system.

The chute is a great development and I think the way ahead as it is almost like the second engine in a light twin.

The Single engine Cirrus Jet is an example where the chute has been added to make up for the lack of two jet engines. That will be a huge attraction for would be buyers and give his /her family and friends an enormous dollop of confidence flying with a single pilot.

Have a failure at night over very low cloud, fog or over water and the chute can save the day.

Even an engine failure over cities or forestation where a forced landing is nearly impossible.

Its a big big selling point when it comes to single engine and other manufacturers should follow the Cirrus example

There are nevertheless down sides in overconfidence where pilots will fly out of their comfort or ability zones

Where pilots will use the chute for silly situations where they should know better
To make up for their lack of skills

Used responsibly by a good pilot where the chute is a backup to his skills and ability rather than a replacement for a lack of ability and skills and it has huge potential for increasing safety

Pace

[Heady1977]

Currently I have no experience regarding landing powered aircraft into fields... just gliders.

Therefore, I cannot comment regarding landing tricycle or tail-dragger or low wing or high wing powered aircraft into fields - especially ploughed or tilled fields.

During WW2 the Moon Squadrons use to fly Lysanders (high-wing, tail-dragger) into french fields to insert or extract SOE operatives. Some fields were "prepared" others not. Ripping off undercarriages or bursting tires (and then the resulting evade & escape) happened from time to time.

The UK BGA has extensive resources regarding glider field landings including tutorials and briefing sheets which are publicly available.

For the purposes of cross-discipline knowledge sharing. This information might help someone make survivable decisions landing a powered aircraft into a field one day. So for completeness - I provide the links below.

BGA Field Landing Briefing

https://members.gliding.co.uk/librar...ding-briefing/
Field Crops – for Glider Pilots

Website describing and showing photographs from the air of 9 different crops and discussing their suitability or otherwise for field landings.
https://members.gliding.co.uk/librar...ider-pilots-2/
Field Landing Tutorial – Chapter 1

Introduction; The process of field selection; Size, slope, surface
https://members.gliding.co.uk/librar...l-chapter-1-2/
Field Landing Tutorial – Chapter 2

Obstacles on the approach; The effect of wind; The biggest is not always the best!
https://members.gliding.co.uk/librar...l-chapter-2-2/
Field Landing Tutorial – Chapter 3

Chapter 3 - Slope: identifying and dealing with it...
https://members.gliding.co.uk/librar...l-chapter-3-2/
Field Landing Tutorial – Chapter 4

Surface, early spring to mid-season; What's growing, can we land on it?; Winter and spring cereal crops; Tram-lines and tractor wheelings; Oil-seed rap; Introducing grass fields.
https://members.gliding.co.uk/librar...l-chapter-4-2/
Field Landing Tutorial – Chapter 5

Grass for silage, hay and pasture.
https://members.gliding.co.uk/librar...l-chapter-5-2/
Field Landing Tutorial – Chapter 6

Horses, stud farms and gallops; Sheep; Cattle and stock-fences; Identifying fences and avoiding landing across colour changes
https://members.gliding.co.uk/librar...l-chapter-6-2/
Field Landing Tutorial – Chapter 7

Overhead wires; Spotting the poles; Approaching harvest
https://members.gliding.co.uk/librar...l-chapter-7-2/
Field Landing Tutorial – Chapter 8

Harvest time, stubble and straw; Random tractor tracks; Land along the direction of cut; After the harvest; Happy landings
https://members.gliding.co.uk/librar...l-chapter-8-2/
Field Landing Tutorial – Entire Video

Field Landing Tutorial produced by the Ted Lysakowsky Trust
https://members.gliding.co.uk/librar...ntire-video-2/

[KyleTheAviator]

Thanks Heady, they're some fantastic resources you posted. I just finished watching the whole 47 minute video. They also have a HD version on their youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXImj2rGkf8

I really think gliding is such a great sport, and can bring valuable skills and knowledge to powered flight. I believe Captain Sullenberger (the pilot who landed in the hudson river in New York after losing both engines to bird strike), was a glider pilot.

It would be great to experiment what fields small powered planes can successfully land in, and at what speeds. But could become a very expensive/dangerous experiment if things went wrong.

[Flying Lawyer]

Originally Posted by KyleTheAviator

I believe Captain Sullenberger (the pilot who landed in the hudson river in New York after losing both engines to bird strike), was a glider pilot.

He was for a few years whilst a student at the US Air Force Academy but he already held a PPL by then.

He learnt to fly aged 16 in an Aeronca 7DC (more commonly known as a Champ) and says the training he received then from the FI at his local strip was the foundation for the rest of his career.

A very impressive man - not just because of what he achieved on the day that turned him into a household name.

[Heady1977]

Originally Posted by KyleTheAviator

I really think gliding is such a great sport, and can bring valuable skills and knowledge to powered flight. I believe Captain Sullenberger (the pilot who landed in the hudson river in New York after losing both engines to bird strike), was a glider pilot.

Sorry for continuing the thread shift - Captain Tadeusz Wrona (of LOT Polish Airlines Flight 16 fame) actually has a FAI Diamond Badge...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadeus..._%28aviator%29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LOT_Po...ines_Flight_16

[cats_five]

A stubble field is ideal, and carrot fields will be as bad as potato fields.

[Pace]

How your aircraft fares will depend on the type of aircraft! If its a Husky fitted with Tundra Tyres you will fare well on most surfaces
If Its a homebuilt with fragile skinny undercarriage and tiny wheels you won't as simple as that }}

[Sillert,V.I.]

Originally Posted by Pace

How your aircraft fares will depend on the type of aircraft!

And sometimes, against all odds, you can throw recommeded practice out of the window and still pull it off - I'm thinking particularly about the two chaps who walked away from a Gnat after putting it into a ploughed field at 160kt following a flameout.

[Maoraigh1]

I tried to lift off a Jodel DR1050, without spats, off the runway at full throttle immediately after touch-down. Every grass tussock slowed it again. When I gave up, and stopped engine, it tipped forward, then settled back on the tailwheel. The prop hadn't touched the grass. No damage.
(I was pax in RHS until left wing lifted at a 45° turn off runway on full throttle being applied immediately on a perfect touchdown near runway edge.)

[Big Pistons Forever]

Originally Posted by Pace

I am puzzled by this question

Any forced landing requires certain priorities

The first and most important is to always keep the aircraft flying. Many fixate on one landing area and stall stretching the glide and that is the killer

The second most important is not to hit something hard at high speed like a building, tree, rock face etc in the landing or rollout. its acceptable to even hit a fence or soft hedge at the end

The third is the surface you land on. I have only had one forced landing which was 30 years ago and that was into a wheat field.

The most important thing is that you walk away from the aircraft intact and unharmed whether the aircraft gear is in such a state will depend on whats on your chosen landing site.

Even a bowling green type surface may contain a ditch or large Rabbit hole enough to remove the nose wheel so nothing is guaranteed regarding the surface and priority is to make sure you walk away uninjured

Ideally you will have a long bowling green field with no obstructions right into wind but lifes not like that and you need to be adaptable decisive and not fixated

How many forced landings have come to grief because the pilot fixated on one into wind field and stalled trying to stretch the glide to get there when there was an acceptable landing site left or right with a crosswind ? Remember too on landing you still have directional control don't just sit there in a straight line if you need to go right or left to avoid something or even spin the aircraft

The surface is a lesser priority as is the wind direction as fixating onto landing into wind while ideal might mean you miss other better options if your chosen site is not working out

In flying always have an out. Never one option and be prepared to jump from plan A to B if need be.Have plan B or even C clear in your head. That will determine whether you survive or don't not the nose wheel thats not part of your decision making

Finally don't take full flap till you are assured of landing

Pace

I think this is the best reply in this thread. Flying schools spend IMO far too much time on elaborate and arcane field selection criteria in a futile bid to pick the "best" field after an engine failure.

When the engine fails the insurance company just bought the airplane. The only consideration you should have is the survival of yourself and the passengers. Whether or not the airplane will be damaged in the forced landing is an irrelevant consideration. If you touch down nose high with the wings level under control on any surface that will allow a bit of a ground roll or slide you and your passengers will survive. If you stall and spin trying to make the better field or under/overshoot the field and hit an obstacle at flying speed and still in the air, you will probably die.

Worried about engine failures ? Don't spend very much time trying to learn about every possible field type, instead do these 2 simple things

1) When ever traffic and conditions allow, practice closing the throttle at various points of the circuit and gliding to a pre determined touchdown point on the runway.

2) Approximately 80 % of all engine failures are caused by the actions or in- actions of the pilot with fuel contamination/mis selection/exhaustion and carb ice accounting for over half of all sudden silences. So sweat the details and make a point of being disciplined in your pre flight planning, pre flight checks and in flight monitoring of fuel and engine indications.

[India Four Two]

When the engine fails the insurance company just bought the airplane.

BPF,
An instructor said the same thing to me, a few years ago, during a checkout and added "Your job is to walk away from the crash." It completely transformed my approach to choosing forced-landing locations.

[ninja-lewis]

Out of interest, have changes in modern agriculture impacted the advice? Just in case WW2 fields had shallower furrows for example?

[evansb]

Shallower furrows in the 1940's? Probably not. Modern farming methods employ Mintill. Minimum tillage is a soil conservation system like Strip-till with the goal of minimum soil manipulation necessary for a successful crop production. It is a tillage method that does not turn the soil over. It is contrary to intensive tillage, which changes the soil structure using ploughs.

[chevvron]

What's wrong with using the English term 'ploughed field' instead of the US spelling?

[Pace]

Another big gotcha is taking full flap too soon! As part of practising PFLs is useful
To note the full flap throttle back descent profile in still air
Only take full flap in any landing phase when assured of landing
If you get it wrong don't be scared to remove that high drag flap portion back to a lift portion
Again an obvious consideration in drag management but one many will ignore and one which is still in our control

Pace

[cats_five]

Modern farming methods employ Mintill

Not if you are growing potatoes or carrots, and it doesn't look like Mintill is used here in my part of Scotland to grown grains & rape. Plenty of ploughing, harrowing & seeding going on at present.