Buying a 1973 PA28-140
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Buying a 1973 PA28-140
I have tried searching, but it's difficult to find relevant info. Specifically, I am seriously looking at a PA28-140 with an engine on GR extension. The price warrants a new/recon/S/H engine if it keeps flying for a few hundred hours, it has a Lycoming 0-320-E2A with all compressions over 70 and no metal in the filters. It has 9 months annual left and even a glide slope that works. Mode C and a couple of 720 radios. Any of you know of gotchas/common problems with these? Any thoughts would be welcome.
Thanks in advance
PG.
Thanks in advance
PG.
The main thing to remember about the Cherokee 140, is that it was originally intended as a 2 seat aircraft.
Some have been fitted with additional rear seats in what was the baggage area.
Their MTOW/performance is limited, and they can be prematurely lifted off into ground effect, without sufficient thrust to accelerate.
ANY attempt to take off overloaded, particularly from short grass fields, is likely to be severely punished!
Another consideration is that you will soon require a Mode S transponder, and a radio with 8.33 channel spacing for any serious cross country flying.
MJ
Some have been fitted with additional rear seats in what was the baggage area.
Their MTOW/performance is limited, and they can be prematurely lifted off into ground effect, without sufficient thrust to accelerate.
ANY attempt to take off overloaded, particularly from short grass fields, is likely to be severely punished!
Another consideration is that you will soon require a Mode S transponder, and a radio with 8.33 channel spacing for any serious cross country flying.
MJ
Last edited by Mach Jump; 15th Feb 2016 at 01:20.
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The engine is very maintainable, do lots of research about airframe parts and repairability. Satisfy yourself that the spares you need will be available if you need them. If minor damage or corrosion is found, will a maintenance, and a signout, be easy to arrange?
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I used to own a 1976 PA 28-151 which is essentially the slightly newer version of the 140 you are looking at, I believe 1976 was the first year they dropped the "Hershey bar" wing of the 140 and went to the 151 model. As others have said its a 3 seater at a stretch, but does 2 people quite well. Its a good solid design and a great trainer. If I remember correctly RAM have an STC to take the Lyc 320 engine for that model from 150 to 160 HP without a lot of expense over what a straight overhaul would be.
I used to love the wing leveler in my warrior, wish I had it in the Maule.
Good luck
I used to love the wing leveler in my warrior, wish I had it in the Maule.
Good luck
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Its' a great 2 person tourer, but respect the Cof G. handling wise it'll never set the world on fire and you need to know your way around take-off performance, there are a few areas that are vulnerable to corrosion, but they are far better in that respect than US built Cessnas.
I had a go of one recently after a long time away. Owner had really had a nice job done. Repainted a couple of years ago, with a recent interior re-fit (a lot were used in flying schools and paint and trim can be bloody tired), he had a Garmin 430 in there as well, I'm not sure if a 530 would fit. but he also had a Garmin Mode S transponder.
The 140 is a good honest aeroplane, parts are fairly easy to come by, maintenace available nearly everywhere and with a well made set of covers doesn't have to be hangared. Genghis will probably be along soon and his knowledge would be useful. (reminds me AA5's)
SND
I had a go of one recently after a long time away. Owner had really had a nice job done. Repainted a couple of years ago, with a recent interior re-fit (a lot were used in flying schools and paint and trim can be bloody tired), he had a Garmin 430 in there as well, I'm not sure if a 530 would fit. but he also had a Garmin Mode S transponder.
The 140 is a good honest aeroplane, parts are fairly easy to come by, maintenace available nearly everywhere and with a well made set of covers doesn't have to be hangared. Genghis will probably be along soon and his knowledge would be useful. (reminds me AA5's)
SND
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About transponders, I have seen some used Mode S units, Garmin GTX 330, King KT76 etc on Trade-a-Plane that are not ADSB compliant, is this a show stopper?
The advice I was given is if you don,'t go to Holland or Germany then you will be ok in Europe for a good while on Mode C?
The advice I was given is if you don,'t go to Holland or Germany then you will be ok in Europe for a good while on Mode C?
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Walk away mate. Just walk away.
If you really, really want a money pit then 2/3 seat CoA a/c should be fine.
There is however another way. Look at LAA permit a/c and think carefully what your flying needs are.
One only has to stand next to any fly-in runway to see single occupancy of many of the arrivals. Why everyone wants to buy an a/c to satisfy 20% of their operational requirement defeats me.
Buy for the 80% and don't be blinkered. Strikes me you've seen something you want and you're looking for approbation here.
Or buy a share in a syndicate of 12 where 10 don't fly much.
SGC
If you really, really want a money pit then 2/3 seat CoA a/c should be fine.
There is however another way. Look at LAA permit a/c and think carefully what your flying needs are.
One only has to stand next to any fly-in runway to see single occupancy of many of the arrivals. Why everyone wants to buy an a/c to satisfy 20% of their operational requirement defeats me.
Buy for the 80% and don't be blinkered. Strikes me you've seen something you want and you're looking for approbation here.
Or buy a share in a syndicate of 12 where 10 don't fly much.
SGC
These planes are good and reliable normally, a pre-buy inspection with a knowledgable mechanic is a must. Otherwise, if that one comes up with a clean bill of health, go ahead.
Most has been said: It is more of a 2 seater than anything else. However, particularly if it has the large tanks (50 USG) it has a decent range and should be quite fine for local and intermediate travel.
That is a headache. You will need to replace those, both the Mode C and the 720 radios fairly soon.
IF the Mode C is a KT76A, you can easily replace it with a Trigg TT31, which would be my choice even if it's not, but then the installation costs a bit more.
For the radio, I'd try to find a used Garmin GNS430. It will give you a GPS and a 8.33 radio all in one.
here is one carefree example, a bit older but very recent engine, few hours and good equipment. Just as an idea about what a normal one costs, so you can assess the price of the one you are looking at. With run out engine and the avionics it has, it should be quite a bit below this.
http://www.planecheck.com?ent=da&id=28967
Most has been said: It is more of a 2 seater than anything else. However, particularly if it has the large tanks (50 USG) it has a decent range and should be quite fine for local and intermediate travel.
Mode C and a couple of 720 radios.
IF the Mode C is a KT76A, you can easily replace it with a Trigg TT31, which would be my choice even if it's not, but then the installation costs a bit more.
For the radio, I'd try to find a used Garmin GNS430. It will give you a GPS and a 8.33 radio all in one.
here is one carefree example, a bit older but very recent engine, few hours and good equipment. Just as an idea about what a normal one costs, so you can assess the price of the one you are looking at. With run out engine and the avionics it has, it should be quite a bit below this.
http://www.planecheck.com?ent=da&id=28967
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Thanks for the replies so far.
Mission profile: As a two seater with some decent range (50 Gallons on board)
Reason to Purchase: The purchase price is to settling a lien against the aircraft at a very decent discount. If the donk gets to say 2600hrs or more then it will be atractive financially.
Will this 8,33 thing be necesaary for flight in class g? I remember one thing my instructor said many times, planes fly on the principles of Bernouli, not Marconi!
On the subject of 8.33, will all tower/approach A/g frequencies have to change as there are not many common denominators of 25 and 8.33Khz? Thames Radar for example is 132.7, thats not going to work on an 8.33 box is it? I have to admit to being busy with non aviation related work leaving me a little out of date on all this stuff.
Mission profile: As a two seater with some decent range (50 Gallons on board)
Reason to Purchase: The purchase price is to settling a lien against the aircraft at a very decent discount. If the donk gets to say 2600hrs or more then it will be atractive financially.
Will this 8,33 thing be necesaary for flight in class g? I remember one thing my instructor said many times, planes fly on the principles of Bernouli, not Marconi!
On the subject of 8.33, will all tower/approach A/g frequencies have to change as there are not many common denominators of 25 and 8.33Khz? Thames Radar for example is 132.7, thats not going to work on an 8.33 box is it? I have to admit to being busy with non aviation related work leaving me a little out of date on all this stuff.
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The reason this one caught my eye is the budget won't alarm the missus too much, I can justify maintenance later!
Mission profile is a lot of 2-3hr legs touring and equal amounts of locals etc. The plane will be based in France at an airfield that charges zero € for parking or landing and fuel is avaiable for €1.50/ltr. So it will be used often for trips to the UK for business and visiting family. I have a frequent flyer account with Eurotunnel and it still costs over £150 return to visit my mum in an old peoples home in Kent, not to mention the time spent travelling with all the delays which often occur. So an 80nm flight which is enjoyable to boot, is much more preferable and I have flexibility in my work to allow for weather.
This plane wasn't the one I went looking for. I was thinking C150/PA38 etc and the PA38 was sold and the dealer had this one coming on line and we discussed needs etc.
I know a good engineer, not seen him for years but I believe he is still at his base which is on the way to this planes base, so will see if he has a spare day with the promise of good beer and food thrown in :-) He steered me clear of an AA5a a few years back due to delamination in the wings, a problem I was completely ignorant of! So I have some faith in his work.
Mission profile is a lot of 2-3hr legs touring and equal amounts of locals etc. The plane will be based in France at an airfield that charges zero € for parking or landing and fuel is avaiable for €1.50/ltr. So it will be used often for trips to the UK for business and visiting family. I have a frequent flyer account with Eurotunnel and it still costs over £150 return to visit my mum in an old peoples home in Kent, not to mention the time spent travelling with all the delays which often occur. So an 80nm flight which is enjoyable to boot, is much more preferable and I have flexibility in my work to allow for weather.
This plane wasn't the one I went looking for. I was thinking C150/PA38 etc and the PA38 was sold and the dealer had this one coming on line and we discussed needs etc.
I know a good engineer, not seen him for years but I believe he is still at his base which is on the way to this planes base, so will see if he has a spare day with the promise of good beer and food thrown in :-) He steered me clear of an AA5a a few years back due to delamination in the wings, a problem I was completely ignorant of! So I have some faith in his work.
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Pistongone, If you have an underlying reason that the plane is a better choice, then ready yourself, and go for it. Readying yourself includes adopting the understanding that the worst that will happen will be that you'll have to spend money on the plane beyond what you planned. If you're planning lots of flying, the worst is that that flying ends up being more costly than you'd expected - think of it as a gamble, with lots of fun flying while you're making it! One of the pleasures of ownership is that you can take the plane away for long distance adventures, without anyone wanting it back.
Some toys you buy expecting to use them up as you play. This would just be an expensive one. If it becomes unairworthy one day, and not worth fixing, part it out, and you won't be too far behind.
Some toys you buy expecting to use them up as you play. This would just be an expensive one. If it becomes unairworthy one day, and not worth fixing, part it out, and you won't be too far behind.
