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Winter Flying: New PPL/What aircraft?

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Winter Flying: New PPL/What aircraft?

Old 21st Dec 2015, 14:00
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Winter Flying: New PPL/What aircraft?

Hello All,

I have been lurking on this site for ages , whilst training for my PPL.
It arrived a couple of weeks ago -Yippee!

I have nosied around the archives new and old and tried to get a feel for what new PPL-holders do and some great threads and stories on that topic.

I was wondering what sort and frequency of flying people tend to do at this time of year when, it would seem a lot of SEP aircraft are tied down/wrapped up for the winter? But some glorious days/wx.

I have yet to fly since the GST and it almost seems like an anti-climax and quite a lonely prospect as I would like to change my 'home' airfield/school for various reasons.

What would you recommend in the Midlands and how far would people travel to fly for an hour or so?

My family have been soooo patient and I need to get them up but slowly and one at a time I think!

I've learned on C152's and still grappling with which aircraft next -would it be wise to start on a different a/c ,say 172, immediately and consolidate the 'conversion' straight away or stick with 152 - I've had various 'quotes' from 'shouldn't take an hour' to '6/7! hours' for that simple check ride!

I also have the desire for limited aerobatics- would a Beagle Pup 150 be suitable for this profile and what extra costs/maintenance would that incur against one that wasn't aerobatted? Is there any point to a Pup 150 that isn't aerobatted? - I have a soft spot for the Pup.

Many thanks for your thoughts. I know that's a big ask.

I realise that although many names on this site are almost 'close friends' having read their posts for so long, I am a newbie so please excuse my 'overfamiliarity' if it takes over!

JJOE
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 14:55
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Congrats on the licence.
No reason not to move on to a C172 or the Pup, either of those should take around an hour to check out on - though there is no guarantee as it does depend on your ability, I would be very surprised if it took you as many as 6!
As far as airfields go it is a good idea to try for one with a hard runway if you want to fly much in the winter, though, unless you buy your own it may be a case of where the aircraft type you want can be found and convenience for getting there, the easier it is to get there the more you will fly.
Pup150 is a lovely aircraft to fly, not sure of maintainance costs if you buy though, nice for the basic Aeros, and if you do not turn it upside down it is still nicer to fly than a Cessna or Piper, though really only a 2+2 rather than a full 4 seater.
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 16:16
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Congrats on the license, some of the best flying to be had is during winter. Nothing like a cold, crisp clear morning for aircraft performance and views of the hills with snow on them.
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 16:23
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jjoe,

Congratulations on obtaining your licence.

I agree with foxmoth - about one hour to convert to a 172. Stay away from anyone who wants you to do 6/7 hours - they just want to empty your wallet.

The 172 is a lovely aeroplane and is my preferred choice for passenger sight-seeing flights, but of course it is more expensive to fly. Since you said you want to fly your family "one at a time", I would stick to the 152 for passenger flying. It's much more fun for the passenger to be up front and you have less distractions with no one in the back.

You said you haven't flown since your test, I would recommend several flights before you start carrying passengers. Get comfortable with making your own decisions. Depending on your comfort level, you could start with a flight in the practice area, followed by some circuits or you could plan a cross-country to an airfield you have been to before.

If the weather is good, there is no reason not to fly in the winter - in Canada, we routinely fly VFR on nice days, with temperatures as low as -20° C. The pluses of winter flying are that bookings are easier, the airspace is less busy and the aircraft performs better because of the low temperatures. However, don't forget to take some warm clothes, in case you end up stranded in a field somewhere and if you are flying over any remote terrain, consider a basic survival kit - at the very least a sleeping bag and a decent first-aid kit.

If you have extra money, do try aerobatics. You might as well do that in a taildragger like a Citabria. Then you will have learnt extra skills, which even in a tricycle gear aircraft, will stand you in good stead.

I see my mate pb84 chipped in while I was typing. He's allowed to spell licence with an 's', because he flies an N reg aircraft.
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 23:05
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I fully agree with both the last two posters. Move up to the C172 or something similar. A one hour conversion should suffice. You will find the 172 much nicer to fly (although I owned a 150 and flew nearly 300 hours in it, utterly loved it; but never regretted trading up, in my case to a Cherokee 180, and subsequently a turbo arrow).
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 23:20
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Personally I prefer the C152 - the C172 is much heavier on the controls, and being a shortarse I can't see over the instrument panel properly.

Any of the common fixed-gear singles: C150, C172, PA28, AA5, PA38, Pup... should take 60-90 minutes to get checked out, and there's absolutely no reason not to do so and then expand your flying horizons.

Just do your homework - manuals, checklists, airport rules, local area before flying anything for a checkout, and you should sail through.


Sywell and Duxford are worthwhile midlands destinations with stuff to do, also have a look at Halfpenny Green, which is always very friendly.

Britain has less good flying days in winter than summer, but when you get those good flying days, they can be spectactularly good. There is some sense in avoiding grass runways unless there's been a longish dry spell.

G
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 23:30
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Thanks for all replies -very good advice to help decide.
What would be considered 'similar' to the c172 and generally available- I presume PA's as club workhorses?

Do you think that aerobatics, however limited, in a shared aeroplane say , are a short-lived luxury- my thinking is that the majority of passengers would 'expect' at least a 'loop the loop' -(I detest the term and know it's a 'loop' but you know what I mean) as even I find A to B so hideously boring that I'd want to do 'max-rate ' turns or spiral dives just to feel some 'g'!

Is this just newbie naivety? I rarely came across any current aerobatic or for that matter IFR or 'night rated' pilots during PPL training- are they so rare at this level? (Not that I have any desire to fly at night but it's oft quoted as something else to do next!) They'd either done some and given up or not done any for years and changed the subject quickly!

Thanks again

Last edited by jjoe; 21st Dec 2015 at 23:44. Reason: Correction
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 23:34
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Sorry Genghis, missed your reply whilst typing- are you available?
Thanks.
JJOE

Last edited by jjoe; 22nd Dec 2015 at 00:17. Reason: Cheek
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Old 22nd Dec 2015, 00:26
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jjoe,

I think you would be surprised how few passengers would actually want to do aerobatics and even those that say they do, might not actually like the experience.

Remember that in a 60° banked steep-turn, you are only pulling 2g. In a loop, the entry and exit are going to be between 3g and 4g and over the top probably less than 1g. Many licenced pilots have never experienced more than 2g. For passengers, it could be a very unsettling experience.

When I take non-pilots flying, I limit the bank angles to less than 20° if possible.

If you do take up aerobatics, do it solo or with another qualified pilot. It's not the type of flying to demonstrate to friends, until you are very experienced.

One more piece of advice - don't do spiral dives for fun. It's OK during training but they are potentially dangerous - it's easy to overstress an aircraft. It's much better to practice coordinated 60° banked turns - it is very satisfying when you hit your slipstream.

One last thought. When carrying passengers, always have a sick bag handy. No need to draw their attention to it, but you need to know where it is and be able to retrieve it quickly!
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Old 22nd Dec 2015, 00:53
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Thanks IFT

That must be why not many people do it or talk about it then; it's the reality triumphing over the perception/myth. I've lot's to learn and this is a good place.

Solo it is or with a similarly wired/experienced buddy.

Thanks again before I go buying the wrong aircraft!

JJOE.
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Old 22nd Dec 2015, 02:41
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I was taught spiral descents as a standard way to descend rapidly. Power-off, a combination of bank-angle and enough G to stop the speed building up too much... are they really such a bad idea?

To the OP: Try an aerobatics trial flight. It sounds as if you're the sort of person who would enjoy it.
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Old 22nd Dec 2015, 07:25
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joe;


Go join the LAA, pop along to your local strut meetings and start finding out about cheaper fun flying. On Christmas morning while everyone else is bracing their livers I will spend an hour aloft in my vintage single seater, before putting her back to bed and joining in the festivities glowing from the joy of the flight and the near frostbite from an open cockpit in December.

SND
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Old 22nd Dec 2015, 07:39
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Hey jjoe.... well done on the license, now you can build experience!

And for the winter in the midlands, GO EAST, young man! if you have been following the weather as you must, you may have noticed the wet comes from the west.

The 152 is cheaper to fly and to rent. The 172 is a great workhorse and can carry three people and a few bottles of plonk, but save it for later. For goodness sake, don't buy your own aeroplane yet, fly the one you know, and go off on adventures. Will they let you go cross country in the rented plane? across the Channel? or touch the four corners of the UK, fly to Kent, to York, to Cornwall (if the weather permits). When you can safely find your way around, buddy up with another pilot to save expense, and go to Europe. There are plenty of experiences waiting there! oola la!

But the last thing to do at this stage is to show off to your friends. Seriously, aeros make them sick. Long flights bore them. And you havn't got the humility of realising just how little you actually know at this early stage. 300 hours? that's the dangerous stage! 800 hours? better. You would have responsibility for the lives of any girlfriends or mates. Don't ask them yet.

Being a solo and licensed pilot is one of the most wonderful feelings that a human being can enjoy. You are a member of a very exclusive club, superior to all those BMW's down there while you look down from your good old spam can. You can fly!
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Old 22nd Dec 2015, 07:57
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If you have only just got your licence I wouldn't worry too much at this stage about what you fly. You need to gain some experience before you think to much about 'which aircraft' options.
Just get up there and fly !....Anything with wings.

Last edited by Shoestring Flyer; 22nd Dec 2015 at 07:58. Reason: Spelling
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Old 22nd Dec 2015, 09:55
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Thanks guys,

I'll quell 'the need....the need for speed' etc and go and do a bit first.

JJOE.
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Old 22nd Dec 2015, 10:37
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Originally Posted by jjoe
Sorry Genghis, missed your reply whilst typing- are you available?
Thanks.
JJOE
Occasionally, but I don't do aerobatic instruction. I have been known to check AA5 pilots out at Cranfield, but seem to have a queue at the moment.

G
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Old 22nd Dec 2015, 13:36
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A large reason for lack of aerobatic pilots around is the lack of aerobatic aircraft at club level, many people are negative about Aeros because they have not experienced them properly, get someone who knows what they are doing to take you for a trip - I do not mean someone who is trying to show how good they are at Aeros, but someone that knows how to get you to enjoy them, this means a gentle introduction responding to your reaction - I have had some people that I have flown every manoeuvre I can, others that I have stopped with after the first loop, but you need to enjoy it, yes, you will find some passengers do not want to do Aeros, but others will, and with the right training and a bit of experience you will find that you can get them to enjoy aerobatics as well. If you can get to Barton you can come and have a go in the RV, and that I suspect is an aircraft you really will find enjoyable!
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Old 23rd Dec 2015, 07:46
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Congratulations on the license I just got mine two weeks ago. I did the opposite of you did the majority of my training on the 172 and then towards the end started flying the 152 for hav qualifier etc. It's about 20-30£ cheaper per hour. You'll find the 172 similar just a few differences dual tanks and rpm not over on the right are two that spring to mind. I'd focus on doing ten hours solo like others say, the passengers will come soon enough and one at a time before you build up to a gang of distractions! I'd stay away from aerobatics for a few hundred hours, that alarms me! Have you read The Killing Zone? A sobering read for new pilots but I'm glad I've read it.
You should come up to Oban and try some flying here, very few flat fields to do a PFL in
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Old 23rd Dec 2015, 07:58
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I'd stay away from aerobatics for a few hundred hours, that alarms me!
Absolute "bo**ox!", I would ask what qualifications you have for this statement? with the correct attitude and training there is no reason to stay away from Aeros and you will learn more about handling the aircraft than all the "£100 bacon sarnie" trips you can do, with the wrong attitude you can kill yourself on a local jolly!
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Old 23rd Dec 2015, 08:55
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Hi Jjoe,
It seems that after getting over the excitment of obtaining your license, you are looking for more challenges, you say that flights from A to B will become boring.
I am suprised that no one on here has yet mentioned instrument flying. Get some instrument time in with an instructor and this will improve your ability to stay safe, even if you do not yet wish to go for the IR(r) qualification.
Best Wishes and congrats,
Meldrew.
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