Winter Flying: New PPL/What aircraft?
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I would add to what FoxMoth is saying but differentiate between aerobatics and this new description " advanced upset handling"
For me aerobatics is more of a direction in aviation for those who want to specialise in aerobatics
Advanced upset handling is just that its more about getting comfortable with an out of shape aircraft so you can quickly identify what is happening and rectify it.
It covers all manner of stalls, steep turns, spiral dives, spins, even stall turns and for your aircraft handling is probably the best investment you can make.
I would also recommend some instrument flying as the above are all things which will add to your experience and confidence flying cross country.
Above all enjoy yourself, fly within your limits and the aircraft limits and know and respect what those limits are
Pace
For me aerobatics is more of a direction in aviation for those who want to specialise in aerobatics
Advanced upset handling is just that its more about getting comfortable with an out of shape aircraft so you can quickly identify what is happening and rectify it.
It covers all manner of stalls, steep turns, spiral dives, spins, even stall turns and for your aircraft handling is probably the best investment you can make.
I would also recommend some instrument flying as the above are all things which will add to your experience and confidence flying cross country.
Above all enjoy yourself, fly within your limits and the aircraft limits and know and respect what those limits are
Pace
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Hi Jjoe,
It seems that after getting over the excitment of obtaining your license, you are looking for more challenges, you say that flights from A to B will become boring.
I am suprised that no one on here has yet mentioned instrument flying. Get some instrument time in with an instructor and this will improve your ability to stay safe, even if you do not yet wish to go for the IR(r) qualification.
Best Wishes and congrats,
Meldrew.
It seems that after getting over the excitment of obtaining your license, you are looking for more challenges, you say that flights from A to B will become boring.
I am suprised that no one on here has yet mentioned instrument flying. Get some instrument time in with an instructor and this will improve your ability to stay safe, even if you do not yet wish to go for the IR(r) qualification.
Best Wishes and congrats,
Meldrew.
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night rating?
In the US of A, there is no such thing. It is assumed you are qualified to fly at night, but in my day (being a UK pilot) I had to get a UK night rating (at Wycombe Air Dark)
the advantage of this time of year is you have plenty of Dark available; problem in this country is how reluctant the owners of Aerodromes are to have any lights available, let alone turn them on! so if all you bold pilots out there fancy crossing the briny and flying in the land where the Wright Brothers first showed the rest of the world how to do it,its a good idea to tack the UK night rating on to your license.
Rule to follow if the engine stops. Head for the darkest bit and land there....
the advantage of this time of year is you have plenty of Dark available; problem in this country is how reluctant the owners of Aerodromes are to have any lights available, let alone turn them on! so if all you bold pilots out there fancy crossing the briny and flying in the land where the Wright Brothers first showed the rest of the world how to do it,its a good idea to tack the UK night rating on to your license.
Rule to follow if the engine stops. Head for the darkest bit and land there....
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Thanks to all posters. very good advice and plenty of food for thought there.
I shall ponder these things over the festive period and see which way to go.
'Get out and do some solo consolidation' before doing anything else seems to be the order of the day.
Thanks again and keep posting, please.
JJOE
I shall ponder these things over the festive period and see which way to go.
'Get out and do some solo consolidation' before doing anything else seems to be the order of the day.
Thanks again and keep posting, please.
JJOE
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Hi Jjoe,
I think that enjoying new challenges is really key to enjoying light general aviation. Landing at big airports between jets, or doing farm strips are great fun to keep your RT / flying skills sharp.
Below is what i have done over the last couple of years, and have enjoyed every single minute of it - perhaps you can pickup one or two elements that I have done, and see if you think you'd like any of them!
When I passed, after a few hours of local flying, and going to a couple of aerodromes I hadn't been to before to get a feel for what it would be like to fly somewhere new without having someone who knew the aerodrome sitting in the RHS.
I started taking friends up for them to get a taste of what it was like to fly, did a lot of trips to the Isle of Wight for lunches, also quite a lot of cancellations / diversions due to weather, been to Lydd a few times for Sunday carvery which both friends and family really enjoyed. During this time i built up about 10 - 15 hours solo (it goes quite fast). Experienced new aerodromes, and airfields.
I quickly realised that I was becoming a little too comfortable with the flying and I too felt I would get bored very quickly, so I decided to get my cross Channel check, went to Le Touquet which at first was really fun, friends really loved it + by claiming fuel duty back it became quite a bit cheaper than flying to most other aerodromes in the UK.
I then had around 20 hours solo, decided to get my complex training (variable pitch & retractable gear) differences training done, which was great fun. After being used to cruising around 90 - 100kts, even my local area became really fun at 125 - 135kts in an Arrow III. More to think about, how to get the most speed for the least fuel consumption was good fun. The Arrow also had a Garmin430 which I didn't have during training, quite fun to learn how to program and use it, it also had an autopilot (which I didn't use much but taught me some basics that were useful later).
After doing just over 25 PIC hours of flying since passing my PPL, I was able to start training for the IR(r) which was definitely my next step. Being grounded due to clouds at 1000ft knowing that the cloud tops were at 2000ft and bright blue sunshine at my destination was incredibly frustrating. (although my CFI was being perhaps a little overcautious saying the that the IR(r) was only a get out of trouble rating, not something you should use... there has been enough debate on the forum to state the opposite (which I abide by)). Flying into clouds brought a fantastic challenge, using instruments effectively, accurately and rapidly was fantastic! I also did a couple of aerobatic lessons which I really enjoyed. Upset training was invaluable, and the barrel rolls / loops / stall turns / half cubans was so much fun! I couldn't recommend it highly enough. I wanted to get the rating but the cost was a little prohibitive unfortunately (Cambridge Aeroclub in an Extra 200 fantastically named G-GLOC).
After doing quite a bit of instrument flying, I decided to do my night rating, as that was definitely the next step for me. Great fun, although challenging at times to see the runway / find aerodromes with lights / willing to accept a plane. I only logged around 10 hours of night flying, so I cannot call myself anything other than novice in the area, but I found it enjoyable.
I then took a (rather long) holiday in NZ, where I had to do some training before they would let me hire a plane. I had to do a minimum of 5 hours, 2 of which had to be below 500ft, and two of which were valley training. I also did around 10 hours of proper mountain training (ie 10k' peaks all around + landing at Milford Sound...etc... incredibly fun). This was an incredible challenge. Although in the vicinity may not be easy to do, I know they have programs in France. This really sharpened my hand flying skills, being able to predict turbulence, rotors, updrafts, downdrafts, escape routes, map reading.
Hope this helps,
Alex
I think that enjoying new challenges is really key to enjoying light general aviation. Landing at big airports between jets, or doing farm strips are great fun to keep your RT / flying skills sharp.
Below is what i have done over the last couple of years, and have enjoyed every single minute of it - perhaps you can pickup one or two elements that I have done, and see if you think you'd like any of them!
When I passed, after a few hours of local flying, and going to a couple of aerodromes I hadn't been to before to get a feel for what it would be like to fly somewhere new without having someone who knew the aerodrome sitting in the RHS.
I started taking friends up for them to get a taste of what it was like to fly, did a lot of trips to the Isle of Wight for lunches, also quite a lot of cancellations / diversions due to weather, been to Lydd a few times for Sunday carvery which both friends and family really enjoyed. During this time i built up about 10 - 15 hours solo (it goes quite fast). Experienced new aerodromes, and airfields.
I quickly realised that I was becoming a little too comfortable with the flying and I too felt I would get bored very quickly, so I decided to get my cross Channel check, went to Le Touquet which at first was really fun, friends really loved it + by claiming fuel duty back it became quite a bit cheaper than flying to most other aerodromes in the UK.
I then had around 20 hours solo, decided to get my complex training (variable pitch & retractable gear) differences training done, which was great fun. After being used to cruising around 90 - 100kts, even my local area became really fun at 125 - 135kts in an Arrow III. More to think about, how to get the most speed for the least fuel consumption was good fun. The Arrow also had a Garmin430 which I didn't have during training, quite fun to learn how to program and use it, it also had an autopilot (which I didn't use much but taught me some basics that were useful later).
After doing just over 25 PIC hours of flying since passing my PPL, I was able to start training for the IR(r) which was definitely my next step. Being grounded due to clouds at 1000ft knowing that the cloud tops were at 2000ft and bright blue sunshine at my destination was incredibly frustrating. (although my CFI was being perhaps a little overcautious saying the that the IR(r) was only a get out of trouble rating, not something you should use... there has been enough debate on the forum to state the opposite (which I abide by)). Flying into clouds brought a fantastic challenge, using instruments effectively, accurately and rapidly was fantastic! I also did a couple of aerobatic lessons which I really enjoyed. Upset training was invaluable, and the barrel rolls / loops / stall turns / half cubans was so much fun! I couldn't recommend it highly enough. I wanted to get the rating but the cost was a little prohibitive unfortunately (Cambridge Aeroclub in an Extra 200 fantastically named G-GLOC).
After doing quite a bit of instrument flying, I decided to do my night rating, as that was definitely the next step for me. Great fun, although challenging at times to see the runway / find aerodromes with lights / willing to accept a plane. I only logged around 10 hours of night flying, so I cannot call myself anything other than novice in the area, but I found it enjoyable.
I then took a (rather long) holiday in NZ, where I had to do some training before they would let me hire a plane. I had to do a minimum of 5 hours, 2 of which had to be below 500ft, and two of which were valley training. I also did around 10 hours of proper mountain training (ie 10k' peaks all around + landing at Milford Sound...etc... incredibly fun). This was an incredible challenge. Although in the vicinity may not be easy to do, I know they have programs in France. This really sharpened my hand flying skills, being able to predict turbulence, rotors, updrafts, downdrafts, escape routes, map reading.
Hope this helps,
Alex
Last edited by alex90; 24th Dec 2015 at 00:02. Reason: really bad grammar and typos... sorry!
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und 10 hours of proper mountain training (i.e. 10k' peaks all around
Jump a flight to Geneva, get yourself up to Meribel in the french Alps and try some Jodel flying on Skis
The strip at Meribel is half the length of Courcheval and just like a launch ramp.
Steep down hill and launch over the most spectacular scenery!
Even land on top of a glacier. Coming back its a committed to land scenario with the high altitude. You land on the upslope and then its on the throttle to power yourself back onto the top.
you can do a French mountain rating or just go for a flight with an instructor! Truly spectacular at this time of year
Meribel is 400 M and 5600 feet ASL
Pace
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Aerobatics training from a qualified instructor for new PPLs is excellent. PPL solo self taught aerobatics, or much worse with Pax is a really bad idea.
As your total piloting time doubles, you will look back at the previous half time with alarm, realizing how much you did not know, and how close you came some times. I still do... Listen to the advice here to take it easy, and grow your skills and experience with learned caution.
A spiral descent is fine, if flown within limitations, and without an increase on speed on the way down. They differ from a spiral dive, which is an unstable maneuver, with alarming increase in speed, and likely increase in bank angle and G. The instant you realize you are in a spiral dive, initiate recovery, there is no time to fool around there. Follow your training.
While flying spiral descents with "enough G", how are you measuring that? All certified aircraft have stated G limitations, but nearly none are equipped with G meters. Have a good plan to understand how you will not exceed limitations. Angle of bank is a good way during turns, as long as you're paying attention. Pull outs offer much more opportunity to overstress a plane, and the angle of bank trick won't help you...
As your total piloting time doubles, you will look back at the previous half time with alarm, realizing how much you did not know, and how close you came some times. I still do... Listen to the advice here to take it easy, and grow your skills and experience with learned caution.
I was taught spiral descents as a standard way to descend rapidly. Power-off, a combination of bank-angle and enough G to stop the speed building up too much... are they really such a bad idea?
While flying spiral descents with "enough G", how are you measuring that? All certified aircraft have stated G limitations, but nearly none are equipped with G meters. Have a good plan to understand how you will not exceed limitations. Angle of bank is a good way during turns, as long as you're paying attention. Pull outs offer much more opportunity to overstress a plane, and the angle of bank trick won't help you...
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Pace :Jump a flight to Geneva, get yourself up to Meribel in the french Alps and try some Jodel flying on Skis
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PB, nearly all of the alpine schools use Jodel D140 Mousqetaires on R-F (or similar) skis.
The D140 has an O-360 with fixed-pitch prop. Flying side-by-side in summer they have less drag and better cooling than my MX-7-180, so they climb a bit faster, but they can't land or take off quite as short. I think in winter or with little 8.50x6 tires on both, the climb rates would be about the same.
Almost all of the glacier flying in Europe seems to be on Rosti-Fernandez skis, or on Megève's improvement thereof.
There are also plenty of privately owned 150 Super Cubs on skis in the Alps, and a few Maules, though mostly 235s and at least one 420. So at a guess a MX-7-180 driver would have to pick take-off slopes with care.
The D140 has an O-360 with fixed-pitch prop. Flying side-by-side in summer they have less drag and better cooling than my MX-7-180, so they climb a bit faster, but they can't land or take off quite as short. I think in winter or with little 8.50x6 tires on both, the climb rates would be about the same.
Almost all of the glacier flying in Europe seems to be on Rosti-Fernandez skis, or on Megève's improvement thereof.
There are also plenty of privately owned 150 Super Cubs on skis in the Alps, and a few Maules, though mostly 235s and at least one 420. So at a guess a MX-7-180 driver would have to pick take-off slopes with care.
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Pace,
Sorry for nit-picking, but it's Courchevel, not Courcheval.
Also, the French "qualification montagne" cannot be entered on a UK part-FCL licence as a "rating" until the DGAC presents its conversion report to EASA (due before April 2018). So for the time being, we just get a nice letter in French (I had to think about that...).
That said, the qualif montagne is fun to do, is valid for life, and the aforementioned French missive is accepted in lieu of the Part-FCL rating by all relevant EASA member states.
Sorry for nit-picking, but it's Courchevel, not Courcheval.
Also, the French "qualification montagne" cannot be entered on a UK part-FCL licence as a "rating" until the DGAC presents its conversion report to EASA (due before April 2018). So for the time being, we just get a nice letter in French (I had to think about that...).
That said, the qualif montagne is fun to do, is valid for life, and the aforementioned French missive is accepted in lieu of the Part-FCL rating by all relevant EASA member states.
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Thanks all posters and esp. Alex90 for a comprehensive to-do list.
You sure pulled all the stops out.
I need to shake off the cobwebs soon after the hols.!
Definitely do not want to be an early gave-up statistic- too many of those already, apparently.
JJOE.
ps I'll not be looking for aircraft ski's just yet but looks amazing!
You sure pulled all the stops out.
I need to shake off the cobwebs soon after the hols.!
Definitely do not want to be an early gave-up statistic- too many of those already, apparently.
JJOE.
ps I'll not be looking for aircraft ski's just yet but looks amazing!
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Hi jjoe,
Congrats on the printed out bit of A4
As others have said, there's a whole load of things you can do. I've also recently passed (~80h total now), and so have been in a similar situation recently
It all depends on what you want to do. I started my aerobatics/tailwheel rating, and also want to get my IR(R) rating at some point. If you're after some general improvements, then I'd recommend a couple of things:
Congrats on the printed out bit of A4
As others have said, there's a whole load of things you can do. I've also recently passed (~80h total now), and so have been in a similar situation recently
It all depends on what you want to do. I started my aerobatics/tailwheel rating, and also want to get my IR(R) rating at some point. If you're after some general improvements, then I'd recommend a couple of things:
- Pop along to a GASCO safety evening. It's really interesting, and you get a copy of Clear Skies, which is a book about "I just got my PPL, what the hell can I do now?". It also counts for AOPA wings credits - another useful thing to use as a checklist of things to do
- Have a look at Advanced PPL: post-PPL course . Even if you can't make it to Andrewsfield, it's perhaps a useful syllabus that an instructor could help with
- Look at what ratings you're interested in. I did night as part of my PPL, because I didn't want to get caught with 30 mins before sunset, and 20 mins away from the airfield. Similarly, I want to do my IMC, because I don't want to get stuck somewhere in the air, with lowering conditions all round. I'm doing my aerobatics because I had a trail lesson and was simply hooked! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9dxxE-ooWw if you're interested)
Advanced upset handling is just that its more about getting comfortable with an out of shape aircraft so you can quickly identify what is happening and rectify it
All I'd add is pick wisely! Please don't be seduced by doing such training in an inappropriately punchy machine (e.g., XA-42, Extra 300, Su29) as while all three are incredible they're very expensive.
Do it in a Pitts / Firefly / Bulldog type machine with a guru next to you / behind you.
Alan Cassidy at White Waltham is excellent, Cambridge aero club has a good rep, as do Ultimate High. I think Charlie Kimbell is around the Midlands and he is also excellent. https://www.aerobatics.org.uk/training/directory is a useful resource.
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Thanks Maulkin and Ridger- both very useful posts.
My main concern is that (maybe unduly and peculiar to new ppls or just me!) unless you like 'going places' to visit, land, hang around, burger ,this fly-in, that meet, and hope the weather co-operates for a 'day out' (which I can't yet get excited about, and also couldn't bear the 2-hour nav trips during 'training'
) then a lone (or with consenting passenger) beat-up-the-sky-sortie every now and then would clear the cobwebs and wake you up! in the local area or further afield then go home- what's wrong with that?
Is this unrealistic/cuckoo-land/soon wears off kind of stuff?
I'm aware it all starts with what kind of flying you want to do (and even 'Why did you learn to fly?') but I couldn't live without some upside-down stuff as and when!
I've seen the 172 groups with couples going to above-mentioned rallies etc and I've seen guys with open-cockpit vintage types- I can see a desire for both.
Bulldog superb but complicated maintenance regime with the spar-mod etc.
Pup 150 would tick most boxes but are these still reasonably economically viable?
Sorry if I've rambled on again.
JJOE
My main concern is that (maybe unduly and peculiar to new ppls or just me!) unless you like 'going places' to visit, land, hang around, burger ,this fly-in, that meet, and hope the weather co-operates for a 'day out' (which I can't yet get excited about, and also couldn't bear the 2-hour nav trips during 'training'
) then a lone (or with consenting passenger) beat-up-the-sky-sortie every now and then would clear the cobwebs and wake you up! in the local area or further afield then go home- what's wrong with that?Is this unrealistic/cuckoo-land/soon wears off kind of stuff?
I'm aware it all starts with what kind of flying you want to do (and even 'Why did you learn to fly?') but I couldn't live without some upside-down stuff as and when!
I've seen the 172 groups with couples going to above-mentioned rallies etc and I've seen guys with open-cockpit vintage types- I can see a desire for both.
Bulldog superb but complicated maintenance regime with the spar-mod etc.
Pup 150 would tick most boxes but are these still reasonably economically viable?
Sorry if I've rambled on again.
JJOE
then a lone (or with consenting passenger) beat-up-the-sky-sortie every now and then would clear the cobwebs and wake you up! in the local area or further afield then go home- what's wrong with that? Is this unrealistic/cuckoo-land/soon wears off kind of stuff?
It sounds to me like you 'just' need to find an aircraft that you simply just enjoy flying - if you can find that machine then even 10 mins in the circuit in winter becomes enjoyable. My own opinion is that that aircraft will probably have a stick rather than a yoke and very possibly a tailwheel although I found both the Bulldog and YAK-52 to be sweet handling machines too.
My opinion has been formed by flying Chipmunks, Jodel, Cubs and then Pitts S2A. All four (for me at least) are just a joy to fly for the sheer hell of it. While not a beginners machine (although nowhere near as tricky as some would have you believe), the Pitts was the one that enthralled me every minute between start up and shut down.
I suggest you draw up a shortlist of types you think might be fun and try to get a ride in each and form your preferences from there.
One last thought - I've never flown one but the Fournier RF-4 has a fantastic reputation as a fun machine to fly - single seat but aerobatic and cheap to run. Not the norm for a 'motorglider'. Worth considering a share in one to hours build.
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1-2 hours a month. I recommend you fly more regularly than this!
