2 new flyers and 1 who wants to go commercial. Best way?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Cheshire
Age: 46
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2 new flyers and 1 who wants to go commercial. Best way?
Hi,
My nephew (17) had his first flying taster today at Manchester Barton (only 30 mins). he absolutely loved it. He has had an interest in aviation for years , as have I. I will be starting my PPL training soon and have no aspirations to fly commercially with the understanding that i would probably be early 40's before i would be ATPL and i also suffer from gallstones so i wouldn't be the best candidate for a commercial job?
My question is more related to him as he wants to eventually fly commercially.
He wants to do the NPPL at Mainair as its cheaper and he can get it done quicker. Ive advised him to go for the PPL as it would be needed to move on to the CPL and beyond. Is there any other route to getting the PPL quicker/cheaper than just doing the PPL? Ive read on here about the Motorglider licence and then adding something to it to make it a PPL but don't really understand it fully due to the never ending licence changes.
Could somebody please explain the best route for him to take?
Any help really appreciated
Matt
My nephew (17) had his first flying taster today at Manchester Barton (only 30 mins). he absolutely loved it. He has had an interest in aviation for years , as have I. I will be starting my PPL training soon and have no aspirations to fly commercially with the understanding that i would probably be early 40's before i would be ATPL and i also suffer from gallstones so i wouldn't be the best candidate for a commercial job?
My question is more related to him as he wants to eventually fly commercially.
He wants to do the NPPL at Mainair as its cheaper and he can get it done quicker. Ive advised him to go for the PPL as it would be needed to move on to the CPL and beyond. Is there any other route to getting the PPL quicker/cheaper than just doing the PPL? Ive read on here about the Motorglider licence and then adding something to it to make it a PPL but don't really understand it fully due to the never ending licence changes.
Could somebody please explain the best route for him to take?
Any help really appreciated
Matt
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 72
Posts: 4,144
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes
on
14 Posts
A typical youth - wanting to get everything done in a hurry 
Your suggestion of the PPL is the best one - it is the foundation of all future flying and should be done properly. The problem with add-ons is that there is too much of a risk of missing something important at each stage.
Phil
Your suggestion of the PPL is the best one - it is the foundation of all future flying and should be done properly. The problem with add-ons is that there is too much of a risk of missing something important at each stage.
Phil
If he wants an airline job then he really should consider CTC or Oxford. They have all the airline links these days. The modular route is not dead but if you want the best chance of a job then modular is sadly no longer a sensible choice. CTC and Oxford are expensive and they have changed the market, but if an airline job is the aim then you are best, in my opinion, playing their game.
The NPPL would be a good starter, at least for a few lessons if not the whole license, in order to discover how much your nephew really likes flying.
The NPPL would be a good starter, at least for a few lessons if not the whole license, in order to discover how much your nephew really likes flying.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Cheshire
Age: 46
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi,
If he was to do the modular at his own pace , CTC offer training with them for qualified pilots don't they? Would that be a good way to do it?
He doesn't have integrated money to do it so modular is his only option i think.
Matt
If he was to do the modular at his own pace , CTC offer training with them for qualified pilots don't they? Would that be a good way to do it?
He doesn't have integrated money to do it so modular is his only option i think.
Matt
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I instruct on the other side of the Pennines (where we have students who live within 15 mins of Barton but won't pay their prices, so hop on the M62 to us) and will try offer some help.
Modular is very much still a choice, and I know numerous people who have these highly prized airline jobs who trained the modular way. So don't let anyone fill your heads with nonsense, and don't believe all the advertising hype that paying £100K is the only way into a job, as it simply isn't. The other side is that I know a few (too many) ex-Oxford people, who paid all the money, got the licences, and still don't have a job...
If your nephew is a switched on kid, then hopefully he's on his way to doing his best at school/college with the prospect of doing a worthwhile degree afterwards, just in case he needs something to fall back on. I'd advise him to get a Class One Medical, then embark on a PPL, paying as he goes, then get a share in some clapped out permit aircraft, wrack up hours, do the ATPL groundschool, then a CPL on a single, followed by multi-IR. A few options now with the new "competency based" IR, but that's the gist.
Once he's got all that, keep it current, see if money can push to an instructor rating and make the right contacts and he'll be in a job before he knows it - if people are hiring.
For yourself, a no nonsense NPPL. Less bureaucracy, GP medical declaration instead of expensive medical. Job's a good un.
Modular is very much still a choice, and I know numerous people who have these highly prized airline jobs who trained the modular way. So don't let anyone fill your heads with nonsense, and don't believe all the advertising hype that paying £100K is the only way into a job, as it simply isn't. The other side is that I know a few (too many) ex-Oxford people, who paid all the money, got the licences, and still don't have a job...
If your nephew is a switched on kid, then hopefully he's on his way to doing his best at school/college with the prospect of doing a worthwhile degree afterwards, just in case he needs something to fall back on. I'd advise him to get a Class One Medical, then embark on a PPL, paying as he goes, then get a share in some clapped out permit aircraft, wrack up hours, do the ATPL groundschool, then a CPL on a single, followed by multi-IR. A few options now with the new "competency based" IR, but that's the gist.
Once he's got all that, keep it current, see if money can push to an instructor rating and make the right contacts and he'll be in a job before he knows it - if people are hiring.
For yourself, a no nonsense NPPL. Less bureaucracy, GP medical declaration instead of expensive medical. Job's a good un.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Down at the sharp pointy end, where all the weather is made.
Age: 74
Posts: 1,684
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
I'd only add to the above the degree courses offered by several Universities that offer an aviation qualification along with a CPL. I used to teach the 'ab initio' end of this to first year undergrads at BNU in High Wycombe, mostly very keen types with whom it was a pleasure to work. Although the course is 'modular' it offers the benefits of a recognised academic qualification as well as pilot training in a more varied environment than the integrated course. If the OP's nephew is 17 than he might consider applying for this for next year. He'd finish aged 21 with a useful degree and a so-called 'frozen' ATPL.
There are other universities offering this sort of course.
TOO
There are other universities offering this sort of course.
TOO
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Passing on a tip
A few years ago, heard an experienced airline pilot say to a new student that if they wanted to fly commercially with an airline to go solo in a reasonable amount of hours.
Suppose from this your nephew needs to choose carefully where he learns so he can do as many landings per hour as possible.
Suppose from this your nephew needs to choose carefully where he learns so he can do as many landings per hour as possible.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Matt, are you going to FINANCE your nephew's flying???????
The "Odd One" has the best suggestion. Lets see if he has enough ambition to go for the degree, as at High Wycombe.
Actually, he is a bit late in getting experience. Our youngsters at my gliding club (here she goes again, suggesting gliding as the best way to begin learning to fly) begin at age 13 and if they sustain their interest, can go solo at 14.
I watched a lad of 14 last weekend do the entire flight - winch launch, circuit planning, and a first rate landing....his mother saw him do it and she was VERY VERY IMPRESSED.
Before being sent solo, any glider pilot must have experienced and DEALT WITH stalls, spins, launch failures, and circuit planning. And if conditions permit, soaring...
Even if they don't learn to soar, they get plenty of practice doing takeoffs and landings.
The "Odd One" has the best suggestion. Lets see if he has enough ambition to go for the degree, as at High Wycombe.
Actually, he is a bit late in getting experience. Our youngsters at my gliding club (here she goes again, suggesting gliding as the best way to begin learning to fly) begin at age 13 and if they sustain their interest, can go solo at 14.
I watched a lad of 14 last weekend do the entire flight - winch launch, circuit planning, and a first rate landing....his mother saw him do it and she was VERY VERY IMPRESSED.
Before being sent solo, any glider pilot must have experienced and DEALT WITH stalls, spins, launch failures, and circuit planning. And if conditions permit, soaring...
Even if they don't learn to soar, they get plenty of practice doing takeoffs and landings.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: York
Age: 53
Posts: 797
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As far as I know mainair only offer microlight training. Although these are excellent aircraft to fly and are great fun. Hours flown in microlights cannot be used as credit towards a cpl. So they may well be better off doing the training in a light aircraft Cessna,piper etc
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: EU
Posts: 497
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Speaking as an airline employed modular route-ee, different things work for different people and all of them require some luck.
I personally did a PPL near my home, as well as a night rating (or qualification as it was) and IMC rating now IR(R), distance learned the ATPL exams and then went another European country to hour build and do the CPL and MEIR (based on price - although quality was considered as well after visiting a few schools).
I got a job flying piston twins and then moved on to an airline job in Europe.
I didn't go to university or do any higher level education past A levels. I occasionally feel like I should have but that is more a personal thing than because it has hindered me in any way in my career thus far (it hasn't).
I couldn't afford to go to CTC or Oxford or the likes, but I now work with some people who did as well as some people (like myself) who didn't. I know a good few guys that went the modular route and haven't found a job and likewise I know a good few guys who went through the CTC/Oxford route and haven't found a job.
My own opinion is that either route can lead to a job, but doing the integrated route required less research and effort to give the same chance of a job as a modular person. That said I think (it's a generalisation and there are of course exceptions) most modular students put a lot more effort in because they know they have to. I am still often surprised by the lack of industry knowledge and naivety of some of the guys and girls that come out of integrated schools who can't understand why the queue of airlines wanting to employ them hasn't appeared, and it usually takes them 6 months to a year of unemployment to buck up and do some work, by which stage the modular person could be 'ahead'. This is precisely how I got my first job after integrated friends of mine turned their noses up at it.
Going solo in a reasonable time was mentioned in this thread. I don't think that matters (apart from maybe in one of those mentored schemes were airlines watch progress). I have never been asked or had to tell anyone how many hours it took me to go solo.
Things that can (but not always) matter as far as getting a job go are passing skills tests first time and ATPL exam results (unfortunately - since they aren't always relevant).
I personally did a PPL near my home, as well as a night rating (or qualification as it was) and IMC rating now IR(R), distance learned the ATPL exams and then went another European country to hour build and do the CPL and MEIR (based on price - although quality was considered as well after visiting a few schools).
I got a job flying piston twins and then moved on to an airline job in Europe.
I didn't go to university or do any higher level education past A levels. I occasionally feel like I should have but that is more a personal thing than because it has hindered me in any way in my career thus far (it hasn't).
I couldn't afford to go to CTC or Oxford or the likes, but I now work with some people who did as well as some people (like myself) who didn't. I know a good few guys that went the modular route and haven't found a job and likewise I know a good few guys who went through the CTC/Oxford route and haven't found a job.
My own opinion is that either route can lead to a job, but doing the integrated route required less research and effort to give the same chance of a job as a modular person. That said I think (it's a generalisation and there are of course exceptions) most modular students put a lot more effort in because they know they have to. I am still often surprised by the lack of industry knowledge and naivety of some of the guys and girls that come out of integrated schools who can't understand why the queue of airlines wanting to employ them hasn't appeared, and it usually takes them 6 months to a year of unemployment to buck up and do some work, by which stage the modular person could be 'ahead'. This is precisely how I got my first job after integrated friends of mine turned their noses up at it.
Going solo in a reasonable time was mentioned in this thread. I don't think that matters (apart from maybe in one of those mentored schemes were airlines watch progress). I have never been asked or had to tell anyone how many hours it took me to go solo.
Things that can (but not always) matter as far as getting a job go are passing skills tests first time and ATPL exam results (unfortunately - since they aren't always relevant).
Viola
Depends what he means by "reasonable" - I really wouldn't worry too much about hours to solo ( because the time taken is dependant on many variables, not just a student's ability). OTOH if someone takes dozens of hours despite having had plenty of continuity and having given it their all it might be an indication that they need to consider an alternative career.
heard an experienced airline pilot say to a new student that if they wanted to fly commercially with an airline to go solo in a reasonable amount of hours.
Last edited by wiggy; 31st Aug 2015 at 14:02.
I wasn't try to create a modular vs Oxford thread.
I am ex ppl /modular Bristol groundschool /Tayside (Perth) now easyJet captain.
All I want to suggest is CTC or Oxford, in my opinion, offer the best chance of a job. If you are to invest a lot of cash and time then do your research. Modular is not at all a complete wast of time but I would respectfully suggest, rightly or wrongly, CTC or Oxford are your best bet if you want an airline job. It is a shame it has gone this way, but there you are.
Good luck to your nephew.
I am ex ppl /modular Bristol groundschool /Tayside (Perth) now easyJet captain.
All I want to suggest is CTC or Oxford, in my opinion, offer the best chance of a job. If you are to invest a lot of cash and time then do your research. Modular is not at all a complete wast of time but I would respectfully suggest, rightly or wrongly, CTC or Oxford are your best bet if you want an airline job. It is a shame it has gone this way, but there you are.
Good luck to your nephew.
