How many lessons should/can you take in one day?
I'm good, but not that good.
Reminds me of an alleged (i.e., probably fictional) conversation inbound LGW
"American 45, descend 10,000ft on QNH 1011"
"Err, Gatwick, American 45, could we have that in inches?"
"Certainly American 45, descend 120,000 inches on QNH 1011".
G
Reminds me of an alleged (i.e., probably fictional) conversation inbound LGW
"American 45, descend 10,000ft on QNH 1011"
"Err, Gatwick, American 45, could we have that in inches?"
"Certainly American 45, descend 120,000 inches on QNH 1011".
G
If the student demonstrates immediate competence, then why not introduce the next lesson?
North American teaching tends to be by osmosis, if you expose the student to things enough times, some of it sinks in. In Europe a more structured building block approach was introduced in 1917. You brief, you fly what you have briefed, then you land and debrief. Conducting unbriefed lessons is a waste of the students time and money.
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North American teaching tends to be by osmosis, if you expose the student to things enough times, some of it sinks in. In Europe a more structured building block approach was introduced in 1917. You brief, you fly what you have briefed, then you land and debrief. Conducting unbriefed lessons is a waste of the students time and money.
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I did a CPL/IR/ME course in the States. The School has no facilities for briefing (no briefing rooms / whiteboards / whatever). When I attempted to get the instructors to brief me before the flight by asking a series of structured questions about what we were going to do they were clearly out of their depth and had no idea how to deal with it. Many of them had also taught at other schools so it wasn't just this one .....
The expectation was that you would just fly - with the instructor yelling at you whilst 90% of your attention was on flying the aircraft and only 10% on what the instructor was saying ......
As an instructor on other aircraft classes in the UK I found the whole experience a useful exercise in how not to teach!
I'm sure there are schools in the US who brief in the way that we are used to in the UK, but from what I've heard and experienced I'm not convinced it is the norm.
Again, from my experience the "1hr lesson" is a far from universal concept. In the US I've seen ab-initio students on sorties lasting 3 to 4 hours.
The expectation was that you would just fly - with the instructor yelling at you whilst 90% of your attention was on flying the aircraft and only 10% on what the instructor was saying ......
As an instructor on other aircraft classes in the UK I found the whole experience a useful exercise in how not to teach!
I'm sure there are schools in the US who brief in the way that we are used to in the UK, but from what I've heard and experienced I'm not convinced it is the norm.
Again, from my experience the "1hr lesson" is a far from universal concept. In the US I've seen ab-initio students on sorties lasting 3 to 4 hours.
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Interesting observations about US teaching style. In my limited experience of it (two BFRs before I gave up my piggyback US PPL, both conducted at Arrow Aviation at Danbury, CT) the ground school part was well structured and thorough, but the flying part was on the hoof and not properly briefed - we just bimbled about and did some circuits.
Yes, I'd say that's been my experience also from doing one of my PPLs, and a handful of biennials and rental checkouts in the USA.
Variable - but at its best very high quality airborne instruction, excellent groundschool, minimal briefing of flights.
Mind you, I've come across a few FIs in the UK over the years who don't brief properly - but they seem, thankfully, to be dying out.
G
Variable - but at its best very high quality airborne instruction, excellent groundschool, minimal briefing of flights.
Mind you, I've come across a few FIs in the UK over the years who don't brief properly - but they seem, thankfully, to be dying out.
G
Back to the question
I can't comment on UK vs US methodology, but to get back to the OP's question:
In my early training I once did around 30 hrs in 10 days. For me this was fine, I interspersed flying with theory, and I mixed up the aircraft types (at my behest), so it was never a dull moment and I never felt particularly tired.
Later on I was associated with a school; it was clear to me that people learn quite differently, and what works for some won't work for others. That said I met a number of people who learnt, whoa to go, in a very short time (one did a complete PPL in two weeks). In my view these people were 'better' than those who'd taken say two years to get to PPL, however I suspect it wasn't just the sustained training, personal attributes will have had a marked effect.
If you're a self starter, and a reasonably driven sort of person then I'd certainly try doing several lessons in a day. It's all experience and you'll soon figure out if it works for you or not.
FP.
In my early training I once did around 30 hrs in 10 days. For me this was fine, I interspersed flying with theory, and I mixed up the aircraft types (at my behest), so it was never a dull moment and I never felt particularly tired.
Later on I was associated with a school; it was clear to me that people learn quite differently, and what works for some won't work for others. That said I met a number of people who learnt, whoa to go, in a very short time (one did a complete PPL in two weeks). In my view these people were 'better' than those who'd taken say two years to get to PPL, however I suspect it wasn't just the sustained training, personal attributes will have had a marked effect.
If you're a self starter, and a reasonably driven sort of person then I'd certainly try doing several lessons in a day. It's all experience and you'll soon figure out if it works for you or not.
FP.
North American teaching tends to be by osmosis, if you expose the student to things enough times, some of it sinks in. In Europe a more structured building block approach was introduced in 1917. You brief, you fly what you have briefed, then you land and debrief. Conducting unbriefed lessons is a waste of the students time and money.
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I think at the very start you don't want to push it more than 2-3 hours in a day - 2 x 1.5 hour lessons.
Then after the first 10 hours it is easier to move to 2-3 x 1.5 hours.
High volume in the circuit over the few days is ideal
you may get bored but you will learn it!
Then after the first 10 hours it is easier to move to 2-3 x 1.5 hours.
High volume in the circuit over the few days is ideal
you may get bored but you will learn it!
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The first question the OP should ask is, do you really understand what a lesson is because a lesson is different from an air exercise?
Your question, and most of the responses, seem to view a lesson as time in the air. A lesson starts when you start the pre flight long briefing study and finishes when you have completed the air exercise and then completed the final self study revision and preferably a test upon that exercise.
Lets say (and this is just a time example) you went to the flying school at 9am and started reading and studying the long briefing for Ex 4 and Ex 5 (your first major air exercise) by 10 am you would be ready for the preflight briefing, for your first Ex 4 briefing I would allow 40 mins so at 11 am you should be airborne and by 12 you would be back at the school and with a 30 minute debrief taking you to lunch. At 1 .30 you would be ready to spend 1 - 3 hours revising the last exercise and preparing for the next exercise or Ex 4 part two, so by 3.30 you would be ready for lesson two and you can already see at this stage that to do the job properly you can only do two lessons per working day up until the circuit.
At the circuit stage though once you have got the basics and are not learning basic theory and are really just learning to land that frequency could be increased to 3 -4 air sessions perhaps, depending on the student, their age and abillity and these two aspects have to be measured by the instructor. You should also consider that you will generally learn more before lunch especially in a hot climate.
The first lesson I try to impart upon FI candiates is that if you want to be a good flying instructor you need to understand that an aircraft is the worst possible classroom and that serious learning takes place on the ground and not in tbe air.
Most poorly trained pilots get involved in tbe rush to complete 45 hours rather than the progression of each air exercise, one at a time (usually) at a pace dependant on their own ability and understanding of the completion standard for each lesson and air exercise.
Your question, and most of the responses, seem to view a lesson as time in the air. A lesson starts when you start the pre flight long briefing study and finishes when you have completed the air exercise and then completed the final self study revision and preferably a test upon that exercise.
Lets say (and this is just a time example) you went to the flying school at 9am and started reading and studying the long briefing for Ex 4 and Ex 5 (your first major air exercise) by 10 am you would be ready for the preflight briefing, for your first Ex 4 briefing I would allow 40 mins so at 11 am you should be airborne and by 12 you would be back at the school and with a 30 minute debrief taking you to lunch. At 1 .30 you would be ready to spend 1 - 3 hours revising the last exercise and preparing for the next exercise or Ex 4 part two, so by 3.30 you would be ready for lesson two and you can already see at this stage that to do the job properly you can only do two lessons per working day up until the circuit.
At the circuit stage though once you have got the basics and are not learning basic theory and are really just learning to land that frequency could be increased to 3 -4 air sessions perhaps, depending on the student, their age and abillity and these two aspects have to be measured by the instructor. You should also consider that you will generally learn more before lunch especially in a hot climate.
The first lesson I try to impart upon FI candiates is that if you want to be a good flying instructor you need to understand that an aircraft is the worst possible classroom and that serious learning takes place on the ground and not in tbe air.
Most poorly trained pilots get involved in tbe rush to complete 45 hours rather than the progression of each air exercise, one at a time (usually) at a pace dependant on their own ability and understanding of the completion standard for each lesson and air exercise.
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2 lessons
I would say two a day. Your brain needs time to process the lessons. A third lesson might be effective some days, but not others. I would fear you're wasting money unless you have a practical test coming up & there is something specific you need to work on and you're on a deadline to get finished (because of work commitments or whatever).
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I did my PPL on an Air Cadet Flying Scholarship so young and fit in those days, regular days were three trips, I did the odd day with four and that was definitely over the top, so maybe TRY a three trip, but be ready to cancel the third trip the next day if it is too much! As for back to back trips, do not even go there, if I fly a trip with a student over an hour airborne (not including long Nav trips where nothing new is being taught, just practising what is already known) I can see a rapid deterioration in performance.
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Well, in my day.....it was so much cheaper to fly power in the USof A....
If still the case, it can do no harm to enjoy a flying holiday in Florida, and Tampa Bay is uniquely beautiful, the major airport in Tampa the most beautiful and friendly place. There are a number of smaller training places around the bay....spend your time on the flight over to Yankeeland doing your book learning....somebody here will be able to recommend a good text to take with you.
Then when you come back to the UK, you are already experienced in handling. A useful idea would be to decide on your British training place beforehand, find out what type of aircraft is used. For example, Warrior, Cesna 152 (if you are slim) or Tomahawk or whatever. And do your American flying in that type.
Time airborne is never wasted.
If still the case, it can do no harm to enjoy a flying holiday in Florida, and Tampa Bay is uniquely beautiful, the major airport in Tampa the most beautiful and friendly place. There are a number of smaller training places around the bay....spend your time on the flight over to Yankeeland doing your book learning....somebody here will be able to recommend a good text to take with you.
Then when you come back to the UK, you are already experienced in handling. A useful idea would be to decide on your British training place beforehand, find out what type of aircraft is used. For example, Warrior, Cesna 152 (if you are slim) or Tomahawk or whatever. And do your American flying in that type.
Time airborne is never wasted.
