90 day 3 landing query
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90 day 3 landing query
A friend of mine who flies Citations for a living asked me does the landing he does on the Citation count towards his SEP flying as he has,nt flown any SEP this year..
???
trevor
???
trevor
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It's OK we all know Pace.
Sorry not me I would say if it was! My SEP has expired so I need to do 3 Sorties with an instructor and a test with an examiner to renew so landings pretty pointless in my situation ) and I do want to put the SEP on an EASA license though
Pace
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My SEP has expired so I need to do 3 Sorties with an instructor......
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Think because I have not flown SEP for more than 3 years i.e. its lapsed 
yet I fly Jets every week 
or that is what I'm told ?
Pace
yet I fly Jets every week or that is what I'm told ?Pace
Last edited by Pace; 24th Apr 2015 at 13:23.
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Hi Pace,
Someone's telling you rubbish! The CAA have no say in the matter, it's entirely up to the ATO to determine what they think is appropriate! Here is an extract from the AMC for Part FCL ...
Key phrases are ...
Note it says can, not "are to be"
For a pilot with 100 hours total and no flying at all in the last three years there would need to be a significant amount of training. For a pilot with 5,000 hours and in current flying practice on other aeroplanes the requirement would be much less.
If a professional and current pilot comes to my ATO to re-new his SEP we will go flying and I will assess his level of skill and knowledge. I may then feel some additional training and practice is appropriate or I may be satisfied after the assessment to put him forward for the Check.
All very simple, logical and nothing whatsoever to do with the CAA, don't let anyone tell you otherwise!
Happy landings (all three of them!!).
3 Point
Someone's telling you rubbish! The CAA have no say in the matter, it's entirely up to the ATO to determine what they think is appropriate! Here is an extract from the AMC for Part FCL ...
AMC1 FCL.740(b)(1) Validity and renewal of class and type ratings
RENEWAL OF CLASS AND TYPE RATINGS: REFRESHER TRAINING
(a) Paragraph (b)(1) of FCL.740 determines that if a class or type rating has
lapsed, the applicant shall take refresher training at an ATO. The
objective of the training is to reach the level of proficiency necessary to
safely operate the relevant type or class of aircraft. The amount of
refresher training needed should be determined on a case-by-case basis
by the ATO, taking into account the following factors:
(1) the experience of the applicant. To determine this, the ATO should
evaluate the pilot’s log book, and, if necessary, conduct a test in an
FSTD;
(2) the complexity of the aircraft;
(3) the amount of time lapsed since the expiry of the validity period of
the rating. The amount of training needed to reach the desired level
of proficiency should increase with the time lapsed. In some cases,
after evaluating the pilot, and when the time lapsed is very limited
(less than 3 months), the ATO may even determine that no further
refresher training is necessary. When determining the needs of the
pilot, the following items can be taken into consideration:
(i) expiry shorter than 3 months: no supplementary requirements;
(ii) expiry longer than 3 months but shorter than 1 year: a minimum
of two training sessions;
(iii) expiry longer than 1 year but shorter than 3 years: a minimum
of three training sessions in which the most important
malfunctions in the available systems are covered;
(iv) expiry longer than 3 years: the applicant should again undergo
the training required for the initial issue of the rating or, in case
of helicopter, the training required for the ‘additional type issue’,
according to other valid ratings held.
(b) Once the ATO has determined the needs of the applicant, it should
develop an individual training programme that should be based on the
initial training for the issue of the rating and focus on the aspects where
the applicant has shown the greatest needs.
(c) After successful completion of the training, the ATO should give a
certificate, or other documental evidence that the training has been
successfully achieved to the applicant, to be submitted to the competent
authority when applying for the renewal. The certificate or documental
evidence needs to contain a description of the training programme.
RENEWAL OF CLASS AND TYPE RATINGS: REFRESHER TRAINING
(a) Paragraph (b)(1) of FCL.740 determines that if a class or type rating has
lapsed, the applicant shall take refresher training at an ATO. The
objective of the training is to reach the level of proficiency necessary to
safely operate the relevant type or class of aircraft. The amount of
refresher training needed should be determined on a case-by-case basis
by the ATO, taking into account the following factors:
(1) the experience of the applicant. To determine this, the ATO should
evaluate the pilot’s log book, and, if necessary, conduct a test in an
FSTD;
(2) the complexity of the aircraft;
(3) the amount of time lapsed since the expiry of the validity period of
the rating. The amount of training needed to reach the desired level
of proficiency should increase with the time lapsed. In some cases,
after evaluating the pilot, and when the time lapsed is very limited
(less than 3 months), the ATO may even determine that no further
refresher training is necessary. When determining the needs of the
pilot, the following items can be taken into consideration:
(i) expiry shorter than 3 months: no supplementary requirements;
(ii) expiry longer than 3 months but shorter than 1 year: a minimum
of two training sessions;
(iii) expiry longer than 1 year but shorter than 3 years: a minimum
of three training sessions in which the most important
malfunctions in the available systems are covered;
(iv) expiry longer than 3 years: the applicant should again undergo
the training required for the initial issue of the rating or, in case
of helicopter, the training required for the ‘additional type issue’,
according to other valid ratings held.
(b) Once the ATO has determined the needs of the applicant, it should
develop an individual training programme that should be based on the
initial training for the issue of the rating and focus on the aspects where
the applicant has shown the greatest needs.
(c) After successful completion of the training, the ATO should give a
certificate, or other documental evidence that the training has been
successfully achieved to the applicant, to be submitted to the competent
authority when applying for the renewal. The certificate or documental
evidence needs to contain a description of the training programme.
The amount of refresher training needed should be determined on a case-by-case basis
by the ATO
by the ATO
taking into account the following factors:
(1) the experience of the applicant. To determine this, the ATO should evaluate the pilot’s log book, and, if necessary, conduct a test in an FSTD;
(2) the complexity of the aircraft;
(1) the experience of the applicant. To determine this, the ATO should evaluate the pilot’s log book, and, if necessary, conduct a test in an FSTD;
(2) the complexity of the aircraft;
the following items can be taken into consideration
For a pilot with 100 hours total and no flying at all in the last three years there would need to be a significant amount of training. For a pilot with 5,000 hours and in current flying practice on other aeroplanes the requirement would be much less.
If a professional and current pilot comes to my ATO to re-new his SEP we will go flying and I will assess his level of skill and knowledge. I may then feel some additional training and practice is appropriate or I may be satisfied after the assessment to put him forward for the Check.
All very simple, logical and nothing whatsoever to do with the CAA, don't let anyone tell you otherwise!
Happy landings (all three of them!!).
3 Point
You don't need any specific number of flights - whoever told you that was talking bolleaux. Unless he/she'd flown with you and agreed that you were so rusty that you needed so many flights, that is!
You just need to do whatever you think you need to refresh so that you can pass the SEP renewal proficiency check. There is NO stipulated minimum requirement no matter when you last flew an SEP Class aeroplane.
You just need to do whatever you think you need to refresh so that you can pass the SEP renewal proficiency check. There is NO stipulated minimum requirement no matter when you last flew an SEP Class aeroplane.
