Is booking out a legal requirement?
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@Jan: yes, Holland requires the aerodromes to log about everything... including intended destination. But then again, intentions could change mid flight, so it's a total waste of effort. All of the aerodromes that I know of log pilot names as well, although I'm not sure if that is actually required or they do it because more logging is better right? Some aerodromes even want to know the passenger names...
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Well I had a second look at SERA and still cannot find the requirement, so it probably did die in the translation.
As for it being 'common sense'? Who do you 'tell' Fine if it is a full service aerodrome (and SERA does require the equivalent of booking out there) but the average strip?
Remember this requirement came in at a time when if you had a well equipped aircraft it had a 360ch radio and probably no transponder. Gadgets like EPIRBs or PLBs were science fiction - as indeed were mobile phones!
Those technologies make the old requirement look pretty daft.
As for it being 'common sense'? Who do you 'tell' Fine if it is a full service aerodrome (and SERA does require the equivalent of booking out there) but the average strip?
Remember this requirement came in at a time when if you had a well equipped aircraft it had a 360ch radio and probably no transponder. Gadgets like EPIRBs or PLBs were science fiction - as indeed were mobile phones!
Those technologies make the old requirement look pretty daft.
Who do you 'tell' Fine if it is a full service aerodrome (and SERA does require the equivalent of booking out there) but the average strip?
When I say this I'm not talking about unmanned landing strips but places where this a presence in the form of A/G, AFISO or even ATC.
Well I had a second look at SERA and still cannot find the requirement, so it probably did die in the translation.
Remember this requirement came in at a time when if you had a well equipped aircraft it had a 360ch radio and probably no transponder. Gadgets like EPIRBs or PLBs were science fiction - as indeed were mobile phones!
Those technologies make the old requirement look pretty daft.
Those technologies make the old requirement look pretty daft.
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Surely it's common sense to let someone know what you intend to do and how many are on board etc?
No problem if you want to file a flight plan every time you fly, however, in the absence of a FP are you religiously going to inform every airfield you are flying to, of your route, POB and ETA, nah.....
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There are some airports which will not accept booking out on the radio and they do indeed require details such as endurance and POB.
I don't understand why anyone would find booking out (or whatever you want to call it) so difficult which can only be in the interests of all on board the aircraft.
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Well I believe that filing a FP does indeed constitute "booking out", the only benefit to "booking out" as you have identified is if you are on a local, with no intention to land away. Then yes maybe some kind of "overdue" action could be taken but not if it's A/G?, as I said unless the destination is fully aware of your POB, route & ETA then forget any O/D action being taken as the departure airfield will not be ringing up to ensure you have landed safely.
An archaic requirement that needs removing under "Red Tape".
An archaic requirement that needs removing under "Red Tape".
Well I believe that filing a FP does indeed constitute "booking out", the only benefit to "booking out" as you have identified is if you are on a local, with no intention to land away. Then yes maybe some kind of "overdue" action could be taken but not if it's A/G?, as I said unless the destination is fully aware of your POB, route & ETA then forget any O/D action being taken as the departure airfield will not be ringing up to ensure you have landed safely.
With respect I don't think it is quite as simple as that. I agree that no formal overdue action can/would be taken.
However let's say a pilot does not return home to his nearest and dearest at the expected time because they've had an engine failure and forced landed enroute and been injured etc. Next of kin would call the airfield to enquire whereabouts. If the pilot had booked out then further enquiries could be made at the destination airfield and if necessary the authorities informed. OK I agree it's not the same as filing a FP but rather than being an archaic requirement or red tape I still think it is common sense. What specifically is the objection to doing it?
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What specifically is the objection to doing it?
As has been said this "requirement" only came about because someone with influence in political circles bent a few ears. No one is required to know when I get in my car, sail a boat, drive a power boat, launch myself of a cliff in a hang glider, go walking or multitudes of other activities.
I do not accept that some one who just sits in a room with a radio has the right to know my personal details of where I am going, lets hear from those who are at the other end of the radio tell us what they do with this information of where we are flying too, and once the words "changing to xxxxx" are spoken, then are they at the least bit concerned about my welfare I doubt it.
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PA28181,
So if you happened to go missing, and you were lying injured on a cold frosty hillside, would you expect the emergency services to go looking for you?
So if you happened to go missing, and you were lying injured on a cold frosty hillside, would you expect the emergency services to go looking for you?
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So if you happened to go missing, and you were lying injured on a cold frosty hillside, would you expect the emergency services to go looking for you?
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Where do they start, at the departure airfield and look 5 miles either side of a track that could be 200m long that they have no idea of direction I am taking.
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Um, yes? Wouldn't talking to radar units along that route be helpful? - it usually seems to work for post-crash analysis.
Cosy warm feeling I'm getting.
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It seems that the theme of the discussion has shifted to "would you like someone to watch over you while you fly?".
For myself, I see that as a personal preference, either choice deserving respect. The minute you take "innocent" passengers, you owe it to them to take all precautions in their favour. If you're by yourself in Canada, within 25 miles of where you took off, there is no requirement to tell anyone you went anywhere. Farther than that, flight notification requirements apply.
Personally, for my solo flying, it's none of anyone's business where I come and go. My wife knows where I am, and whom to call, if I'm not where I should be. When I lived alone, with the plane in my back yard, I certainly did not look for anyone to tell I was going flying, I just went. If I crashed, well, that's what I keep an ELT in service for! Now, with cell phone, two different portable radios, a SPOT, still the ELT, and a wife who likes to have a rough idea where I am, I feel pretty secure. As for lying in a crashed plane in the freezing cold, I dress for it before I fly. I don't worry about going for a walk, drive, or ATV ride alone, why would I worry any more about flying alone? My personal best for being alone in the plane, was camping last summer in Labrador, where I believe that I was 93 miles form the nearest other person. But, with a sat phone, and two independent ways to be found, I did not worry! A flight plan really does not work well up there, 'cause unless the sat phone works, you cannot open and close it anyway... I like sat phones, but I would never depend upon one!
When I take my 11 year old daughter camping in the plane, my wife knows, daughter has the cell phone, knows how to activate the SPOT, and has instructions as to how to use the portable radio to ask for help. Similarly, any other passenger gets a briefing, and someone (I choose) knows where we're going.
If an aerodrome wanted to know every time I took off, I would politely say that they are welcomed to look out the window and watch, but writing it down or telling anyone, is an intrusion upon my privacy! Sort of like the rules of listening to public radio transmissions, listen all you want, but do not record or divulge!
So personally, I would rise against what I now understand as a requirement to "book out" when flying my plane. But, that is just my personal preference, and not intended to sway anyone elses preference....
For myself, I see that as a personal preference, either choice deserving respect. The minute you take "innocent" passengers, you owe it to them to take all precautions in their favour. If you're by yourself in Canada, within 25 miles of where you took off, there is no requirement to tell anyone you went anywhere. Farther than that, flight notification requirements apply.
Personally, for my solo flying, it's none of anyone's business where I come and go. My wife knows where I am, and whom to call, if I'm not where I should be. When I lived alone, with the plane in my back yard, I certainly did not look for anyone to tell I was going flying, I just went. If I crashed, well, that's what I keep an ELT in service for! Now, with cell phone, two different portable radios, a SPOT, still the ELT, and a wife who likes to have a rough idea where I am, I feel pretty secure. As for lying in a crashed plane in the freezing cold, I dress for it before I fly. I don't worry about going for a walk, drive, or ATV ride alone, why would I worry any more about flying alone? My personal best for being alone in the plane, was camping last summer in Labrador, where I believe that I was 93 miles form the nearest other person. But, with a sat phone, and two independent ways to be found, I did not worry! A flight plan really does not work well up there, 'cause unless the sat phone works, you cannot open and close it anyway... I like sat phones, but I would never depend upon one!
When I take my 11 year old daughter camping in the plane, my wife knows, daughter has the cell phone, knows how to activate the SPOT, and has instructions as to how to use the portable radio to ask for help. Similarly, any other passenger gets a briefing, and someone (I choose) knows where we're going.
If an aerodrome wanted to know every time I took off, I would politely say that they are welcomed to look out the window and watch, but writing it down or telling anyone, is an intrusion upon my privacy! Sort of like the rules of listening to public radio transmissions, listen all you want, but do not record or divulge!
So personally, I would rise against what I now understand as a requirement to "book out" when flying my plane. But, that is just my personal preference, and not intended to sway anyone elses preference....
"would you like someone to watch over you while you fly?"
That feeling is quite alive among a part of the Belgian microlight fliers. I once heard a story of a long planned group flight abroad, so that in a strictly legal sense filing a flight plan was required. Yet when one participant actually did so, another promptly quit the party, saying that he wouldn't fly in the company of people who didn't respect the proper microlight spirit.
I'm sure that same feeling exists elsewhere too; though it seems to me it is on the recline.
Last edited by Jan Olieslagers; 25th Mar 2015 at 18:08.
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To be really safe you should never even think of not wearing your hi-vis vest when engaging in any activity on an airport, the hi-vis vest is number one priority in my opinion.
To be really safe you should never even think of not wearing your hi-vis vest when engaging in any activity on an airport, the hi-vis vest is number one priority in my opinion.
Preferably brightly colored and festive uniforms, of which the reflective vest is a perfect example.
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To be really safe you should never even think of not wearing your hi-vis vest when engaging in any activity on an airport, the hi-vis vest is number one priority in my opinion.
As well as
- not booking out
- not wearing hi-ris
- turning off the transponder
if you really don't want people to know what you're up to you mustn't forget to
- paint a fake reg on your aircraft (just covering up the real one doesn't hack it, that'll look suspicious)
and of course you need to turn off all your phones/iToys ect ect.
And when you've done all that ... you'll be all set up for your drug- or people-smuggling run!
Avoid imitations
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Speaking as an ex SAR pilot, I can assure you that narrowing the search area even slightly increases the chances of success. The point you are perhaps failing to see is that by widening the area of uncertainty, the resources tied up searching are greatly increased. All at tax payers expense of course, not that of the individual in question.
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First of all - there can only be one set of 'rules of the air'. The 2007 rules have been replaced by SERA. There is a listing on the CAA website of what are referred to as 'retained rules' left overs of the 2007 rules of the air that the CAA has decided to retain. Booking out is not one of them!
As for most of the other comments, there is a massive lack of logic - I have a 760 channel radio, a mode c transponder, a PLB and a mobile phone.
If I need anyone to know where I am I have 4 methods which pinpoint me. I fly in the highlands and believe me there are many, many more people in the hills than you would think. One accident I am aware of the pictures were posted on the internet before the guys even got back to the airfield.....
Booking out is a classic 'small persons' response to a near non-existant problem.
As for most of the other comments, there is a massive lack of logic - I have a 760 channel radio, a mode c transponder, a PLB and a mobile phone.
If I need anyone to know where I am I have 4 methods which pinpoint me. I fly in the highlands and believe me there are many, many more people in the hills than you would think. One accident I am aware of the pictures were posted on the internet before the guys even got back to the airfield.....
Booking out is a classic 'small persons' response to a near non-existant problem.
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Hey posters, this is a worthwhile discussion, which I'm happy to see continue. But, bits are being lost, as I'm editing out some seemingly personal attacks.
Please play the ball, not the player...
Please play the ball, not the player...