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Thought you might like this Tiger Moth review...

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Thought you might like this Tiger Moth review...

Old 7th Feb 2015, 10:33
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Thought you might like this Tiger Moth review...

Tiger Moth: Old school flying without all those pesky flaps, brakes and instruments

Tiger Moth: Old school flying without all those pesky flaps, brakes and instruments ? The Register

An excerpt:

I smiled and sat back. I was in a beautiful vintage plane about to take off and fly over the Salisbury plains in the sunshine. Could life get any better than this? David interrupted my day dreaming. “Now you too can experience the joy of taxiing a tail dragger. You have control.”

I choked and then rapidly grabbed the stick and looked for the rudder pedals. Memories of my first-ever training flight came back to me: I couldn’t reach the pedals. Weren’t they all a lot shorter in 1933? Clearly still not as short as me, though. David agreed to do the rudders. I increased the power and we trundled down the taxi-way.



“Here’s the thing,” said David. “We have no brakes. We’re following another aircraft. And we’re about to start rolling downhill.”
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Old 7th Feb 2015, 13:25
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I blagged a flight in a Moth once. Lovely aeroplane to fly and all that but the most uncomfortable I've ever been in. Had a bad back for days after I got out, the seat was obviously as wrongly shaped as it could be for my build.

It was an interesting blag actually. We had taken an E3 down to Marham open day and I was wandering down the static line when I came across this Moth. I got talking to the owner and he said he would love a look around the E3. I said 'Gizza trip in the Moth and I'll show you round' half jokingly. His eyes lit up and he asked when I wanted to go. Ten minutes later we were airborne, me with a silly grin but aching back. Worth it though.
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Old 7th Feb 2015, 13:30
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I blagged a flight in a Moth once. Lovely aeroplane to fly
Um... I'd really have to disagree with that. Lovely experience I could go along with (open cockpit biplane, loads of character etc.).

But lovely to fly? It's one of the worst co-ordinated aeroplanes I've ever flown; terrible ailerons and hyperactive rudder! It's one de Havilland didn't get right as far as handling goes.
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Old 7th Feb 2015, 13:35
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Ah, I know what you mean but when I was having a pole around the owner asked me if I flew gliders. I said yes and he said 'I can tell, you know what the rudder is for.' I thought it handled OK but I didn't do anything extreme in it being as it wasn't mine.

Have you ever flown a 150 Aerobat? Now that does have a twitchy rudder. You kind of sail through the air chasing the slip ball around.
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Old 7th Feb 2015, 13:53
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Aerobat handles the same as any 150 - soggy! But better handling than the Tiger Moth.

But if you offered me a flight in either, it'd be the de Havilland every time! Especially for aeros!
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Old 7th Feb 2015, 14:10
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Aerobat handles the same as any 150 - soggy!
Interesting, I fly a 152 a fair bit and find it totally untwitchy, soggy, yes. Don't know if the Aerobat has a bigger fin/rudder or whether it's the bigger donk that makes it a bit less able to fly in a straight line. It could of course be my crap piloting skills!
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Old 7th Feb 2015, 14:22
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As far as I know the only difference in the Aerobat is it's beefed up to take aerobatic forces (actually I'm not sure the structure is any different to a standatrd 150), and has jettisonable doors and removable seat cushions for fast parachute-equipped exit, and 4-point harneses. I flew both years ago and detected no handling differences between them. Or indeed the 152 that replaced the 150 - except the limitation of only 30 degrees flap in the latter.
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Old 7th Feb 2015, 14:36
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Aerobat I fly has the Continental O-240 in it which is 130 hp. The 152 has the Lycoming 235 at 115hp.
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Old 7th Feb 2015, 14:47
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Same for me. Watch out for carb icing on that Conti!
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Old 7th Feb 2015, 14:55
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Ah, ta for that. Bit prone to it are they?
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Old 7th Feb 2015, 16:12
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Had a bad back for days after I got out, the seat was obviously as wrongly shaped as it could be for my build.
I think you will find it is not the shape of the seats but the shoulder strap setup which is too low and tends to pull your back down.

Also very surprised that the instructor was doing the prop - often the "student" will have no flying experience whatever!

Last edited by foxmoth; 7th Feb 2015 at 16:24.
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Old 7th Feb 2015, 18:14
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The Aerobats (150 and 152) do have a 'beefed up' structure over a standard aircraft. Strengthened main spar, tailplane spar and wider chord wing struts are the basic differences.

152 Aerobats (A152/FA152) had the same Lycoming O-235 engine as the standard 152.

150 Aerobats (A150) had the same TCM O-200 engine as the standard 150 apart from the French built FRA150L and M which used the Rolls-Royce Continental O-240, 130hp engine.
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Old 7th Feb 2015, 18:55
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You can pay for a ride in a Tigerschmitt at Tyagarah, near Byron bay NSW

If you go further and decide to be checked out, you would not then necessarily agree with the anonymous, sarcastic author of the following, for the DH82 does or did have great attributes as a trainer. The thousands upon thousands who did their basic training in Tigers in the Second World War are testimony to that. It does take some precision to fly a Tiger accurately.
Having got the hang of it, I swear there is nothing more exhilarating than to find a nice wide open paddock on a summer's day, then indulge in half an hour's circuits, judging it finer and finer with each successive circuit.

Here's that spoof -


I've plenty of soul, just no patience for that horrible abortion of an aeronautical design, the DH82. It's all well and good to BE FLOWN about Byron Bay in one, but to BE THE ONE FLYING is an experience I wouldn't wish on my mother-in-law or my worst enemy, which ever one happened to be standing closest.

I list only some of its foibles as a complete list would do your head in.

1. The engine's upside down, which is a bad place to begin the whole design process for a start. Open the tap and it makes more noise than horsepower.

2. The glass wasted on the joke of a windscreen would have been put to better wartime use making storm doors for submarines, where they would have been found infinitely more effective than they are as windscreens on Tiger Moths. A louder, draftier, more uncomfortable place cannot be found in all aeronautica.

3. The ailerons are misnamed. They should be called "Adverse Yaw Generators" because that's all the confounded use things are. Either that or the ones on the example I flew were reverse-rigged.

4. The designer of the trim system deserves a special place in purgatory for this nasty little device. The trim control is notched, not smoothly adjustable, which means you set the power setting you want, find the trim notch closest to that, then fiddle about with the throttle for the entire rest of the flight futilely fighting to find the exact point of trim - never have I been so utterly and needlessly distracted by so necessary yet so useless a contrivance as that rig!

5. To top it all off, the harness was invented by Harry Houdini in his early years as an INscapologist when he thought the crowds would pay to see him get INTO impossibly difficult and complex webbing and knots. I had an easier time learning to tie a bowline on Helsal in a Force 8 than I did trying to understand the Cat's Cradle that is the harness in a Tiger Moth.

Other than that, they're fine machines and every aviation museum and aeronautical university should have an example of one - so they can be studied in excrutiating detail as examples of every single thing NOT to do in designing a basic trainer.
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Old 7th Feb 2015, 20:23
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A Tiger Moth was resident in my client's hangar for ten years that I saw it there. 'Never flew. One day he mentioned in passing that he had sold it, and was looking forward to one last flight before it went, it was duly make flight ready.

I was at his hangar on other business, doing some test flying of a modified Caravan. He said to me: "I guess I'll have you test fly the Moth, it seems to have shrunk since I last flew it!". A smile crossed my face. I had flown one a couple of times on skis in the late '70's, but not since. As I was certain it had no flight manual for me to review, I asked if there was anything I should know. "No", he said, "just go and fly it."

I sensed the frustration of an older fellow, whose waistline had grown more than deHavilland had allowed for in their design. So after a very detailed walk around, I climbed in, and looked around. I checked the light controls, and found that the ailerons went up, but apparently not down. I asked the mechanics, they had blank faces. So, I went up to his office... "Ailerons move up, but not down? I s that correct?" "Yup". And with that, I went a flew. I had a delightful time, even though it was a cool December day. But I agree with SSD, even my soggy 150 is more crisp to fly than the Moth.

It was flown away soon after, hopefully after checking the gas, and filling the oil....
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Old 7th Feb 2015, 20:57
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Why do people seem to feel big by knocking the Tigermoth?

There seems to be a trend developing? ... "Worst handling aeroplane I've ever flown", "It's so crap I'm surprised it was ever considered capable of carrying my Godlike ass aloft" .... these comments seem to dominate???

Well personally I rather like them! I've flown one or two aeroplanes in my time and yes, I like some better than the poor old DH82a. But there are a lot I like less

SS
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Old 7th Feb 2015, 21:18
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Well. . . there are so many light aircraft with diverse handling qualities.
You should only compare like with like. Other comparisons are invidious.
And pointless. The fun of a Tiger is akin to the fun had driving, say, a Model T. But of course, three dimensions always will leave two in the shade.


P.S. If you are, in any sense, a short stripper, I do hope business is booming, and you are not dwarfed by the competition.
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Old 7th Feb 2015, 21:32
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LOL ... I am indeed rather short but alas not good looking enough to be a stripper other than in a flying sense.

My first powered solo was in a Tigermoth and so I guess I have a soft spot for it ... Mind you, I took my driving test in an Austin A40

SS
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Old 7th Feb 2015, 22:08
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. "Worst handling aeroplane I've ever flown", "It's so crap I'm surprised it was ever considered capable of carrying my Godlike ass aloft" ....
Well, Shortstipper, I've searched the thread. It seems it's only you who said that. Everyone else just says it has poor handling, which it undoubtedly does. No-one's claimed to have a 'godlike ass' (whatever that is - some sort of heavenly equine quadruped?). That's entirely in your own head. Better deal with it.

I quite like the dH82. It handles like a wet sponge, but it sure has character.
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Old 7th Feb 2015, 22:15
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wish I was handling a wet sponge this morning .. . in the right company

someone once described the handling characteristics of the BN Trilander as like stirring porridge with a crowbar
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Old 7th Feb 2015, 23:32
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Mr Shaggy Sheep ...

Not just referring to this thread. It just seems that whenever a thread about the dear old Tigermoth comes up, everyone loves to comment about about how crap it is ... If you hunt back over similar threads I'm sure you'll see what I mean.

SS
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