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Plane crash near Basingstoke UK

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Plane crash near Basingstoke UK

Old 13th Jan 2015, 07:51
  #161 (permalink)  
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I think you check some ones name and a few other facts first before coming straight out with that information
Vaguely recall an incident some years ago, something along the lines of a young guy - in his mid teens I think - receiving a call from a journalist questioning him about the death of his parents in a light aircraft crash several hours earlier. They owned one of several of the type in the UK but not the one involved.
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 07:54
  #162 (permalink)  
 
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Indeed it would, Talkdown man.
Simple landmark and directional guidance, as is afforded to pilots who are lost, perhaps.
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 12:00
  #163 (permalink)  
 
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A precautionary landing under power is really little different to any other landing under power albeit a slow short field approach where the big differenceEs comes into determining wind,landing area length , surface quality, slope, obstructions visible and invisible, visibility cloud base and so many other factors to a standard landing that you could almost put a great chunk of training over to that alone.
I agree. I suppose the question is whether the height you need to determine those factors is less than you would need to execute a 180 into better weather?
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 12:41
  #164 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ridger
I agree. I suppose the question is whether the height you need to determine those factors is less than you would need to execute a 180 into better weather?
There may not have been better weather to execute a 180 into.

In these sort of conditions it is all too easy to paint yourself into a corner from which there is no safe visual escape and IMHO with a functional aircraft the least worst option is to climb to a safe height & call for whatever help you need.

It is seductively easy to be caught out by flying in conditions when better judgment should keep you on the ground. Maintaining proficiency in instrument flying to at least a level which gives you the option of a SRA/GCA or vectors to VFR weather mitigates the risk and gives you an alternative to an off-airport landing in unfavourable conditions.
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 13:46
  #165 (permalink)  
 
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I am based at an airfield very close to Bidford, where this flight originated the previous day. I too have flown to the Isle of Wight on this very route on several occasions, sometimes stopping overnight. The route takes you directly over Popham and in the past I have also landed there as well as talking to Popham en-route. On occasion, I have had to wait until well past lunchtime for conditions to improve enough to leave IoW. On reflection I think it is human nature that there are conditions that exist in which you would make a decision to return but you wouldn't start an outbound trip, particularly if the forecast for the next day was the same or worse of if you needed to get back for something.

My understanding is that the pilot was not inexperienced, the Brize radar track the previous day shows him routing straight through the Brize zone, and the onward routing being straight at around 140kts (although not level). He would have needed a clearance from Brize Zone for that and almost certainly been squawking a code. I believe he was also an active paraglider/paramotorer and had built the Pioneer 300 that he owned before this as well as owning a flexwing microlight.

FBS's first hand report of conditions is of interest but of course they relate to conditions at that exact moment at that exact place only. It is clear from the METARS that conditions would have been variable en-route and the area surrounding Popham. I also note the report of the wind from the north-east (whereas it was more northerly/north-west in the surrounding METARS) which would suggest 03 as the optimum runway, the approach of which is over Black Wood, although when I last landed at Popham and this runway was in use, someone mentioned it was operated under the 28 day rule and was not the most used runway.

The whole incident is terribly sad and shocking, no pilot would put themselves, much less their family, at deliberate risk. We don't know exactly what happened although FBS knows more than the rest of us. I would only ask that those who are attempting to identify a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle with only 100 pieces and declaring 'Mona Lisa' wait until the AAIB report, (even they may not have the 1000 pieces). Their report will be factual, comprehensive and professional as it always is. We should be mindful that in one, five or ten years time, the pilot's son will be reading this (and we all pray he pulls through unscathed) and those leaping to conclusions early risk looking tactless and insensitive, as well as potentially very foolish.
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 13:48
  #166 (permalink)  

 
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Very well said that man.
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 14:19
  #167 (permalink)  
 
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Skyrangerpro,
A very interesting, well written, and informative post.
There are, however, elements of your final paragraph with which I do not concur.
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 15:22
  #168 (permalink)  
 
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Perhaps it's time for this thread to be closed

A thread such as this achieves nothing good so please stop the conjecture and WAIT FOR THE ACCIDENT REPORT TO BE PUBLISHED.

HFD
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 15:33
  #169 (permalink)  
 
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A thread such as this achieves nothing good....
Fundamentally disagree

Any thread that gets pilots possibly re-evaluating their approach to personal go/no-go weather decisions and/or actions when aloft and facing deteriorating weather has got to be good IMHO. This thread could possibly save someone's life between now and the eventual publication of the AAIB report.
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 16:45
  #170 (permalink)  
 
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Fundamentally agree with you, Mariner9

Contributions to this type of thread, if considered and relevent are very helpful.

Last edited by ChissayLuke; 13th Jan 2015 at 18:03.
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 18:05
  #171 (permalink)  
 
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The facts are that an aircraft took off safely from the IOW and subsequently hit the ground in an area that may not have been experiencing weather that was suitable for safe VFR flight. Anything else is conjecture and unlikely to help anyone.

Without commenting on this particular case (because there are no relevant facts on which to comment), if any post-solo pilot does not know that continued flight into bad weather without substantial instrument training is a killer, or that stalling near the ground is a killer, or that blindly following "pink string" is a killer, then they need more help than can be provided in this forum.

Accidents happen. We start our aviation lives with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience - the trick to a happy flying career is to fill the bag of experience before emptying the bag of luck.

HFD
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 18:16
  #172 (permalink)  
 
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HFD,

Your final paragraph is indeed true!

But you hint at surmise in your second paragraph, and the point you appear to seek to make might have been better made without it, imho.

I respect your views, of course. And, by the same token, I assume that you respect those of others, at variance with your own.
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 18:33
  #173 (permalink)  
 
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No surmise was intended - I just looked at a few of the earlier posts to try and see what you thought might have been of value, in case I was missing something. I stand by my original statement that there is nothing to be gained from threads like this - unlike the AAIB reports, which should almost be compulsory reading.

The real world beckons.
HFD
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 19:09
  #174 (permalink)  
 
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Hey HFD,

Quite agree about the reports being compulsory reading.
Logged reading in Flying Scools, Even-much could be learned.

It doesn't matter that you and I do not concur.
Free speech and contrary views are important communication.
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 19:44
  #175 (permalink)  
 
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Of course we do not know what happened but the point of this thread is not to do the AAIB work for them but to analyse possibilities?

Most in the thread are pilots and as such this sort of analysis will at least get others to think around the subject and hopefully avoid a similar situation.

I do not agree with the dramatic emotive statements of some who try to quash discussion by using the excuse of hurting feelings and discuss nothing till the AAIB report comes out a year hence when everything is forgotten.

Any tragic fatal accident will register more with other pilots when it happens it is only then that they are receptive to learning lessons sadly a year later when the AAIB report comes out and the subject is history.

it is a sad fact that the vast majority of accidents are pilot error and its extremely unlikely that this one will be any different! Not IMPOSSIBLE but extremely unlikely and yes that bit we will have to wait for the AAIB report.

As long as posters don't pick this particular accident apart stating fact I do not see anything at all wrong in discussing the possibilities! Nothing will bring back the people in that aircraft but discussion MAY stop something similar happening to another pilot.

Pace
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 19:49
  #176 (permalink)  
 
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High Flung Dung has indeed been kind enough to start another thread to discuss ways in which pilots can improve their safe flying. Waiting for the AAIB to complete their investigation and report is counterproductive, there are things to be learned now. And not everything gets into the AAIB reports.
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 20:14
  #177 (permalink)  
 
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Mary

And even then not all AAIB reports are conclusive of fact
The Malaysian airline whatever? will never be conclusive of fact
So those who say wait for the AAIB report may sadly be disappointed

Pace
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Old 15th Jan 2015, 08:24
  #178 (permalink)  
 
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I'd be prepared to bet that every accident thread on this site at some point contains posts which contain "wait for the AAIB report" or "show some / out of respect for the dead...." or "I knew him he was a lovely man/woman" etc.

The time it takes for these type of posts to arrive is reduced if the accident involves a commercial pilot. At which point log books will be drawn out and hours compared....

Curiously pages and pages of complex mechanical engineering theory and thesis can be debated but over recent years the pilots decision making can be found at the root of most accidents. Unfortunately in single pilot private flying that is a difficult thing to really do much more about.

As has already been said if you take off on a VFR flight from point A with point B as the destination if you haven't planned, or not planned very well and the weather changes then at some point if you are a PPL with no instrument training (or with some training and no ability..etc pedants feel free to add as appropriate) it becomes a case of more luck than judgement.

Flying isn't hard, the rules aren't actually very restrictive or hard to understand and follow, especially if you take a simple view that is if you don't know and are not prepared to learn then don't do it.

If those who had come to grief could read the final AAIB reports into their demise I very much doubt that most would find it a shock / revelation.

The problem for the AAIB is that they are clearly under resourced and if you are in the "wait for the AAIB report" before being prepared to either think about or take action for own sake I guess you might see something on this in 2016??
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Old 16th Jan 2015, 18:19
  #179 (permalink)  
 
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After the crash, George was pulled from the wreckage and flown to Southampton General Hospital with “life-threatening” injuries. But he has since been moved to Birmingham Children’s Hospital and his recovery hailed as “miraculous”.

VIDEO: Classmates send messages to George | Stratford Herald

Some positive news about the recovery of the Son, these accidents generally have a life changing effect on many.
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Old 17th Jan 2015, 09:17
  #180 (permalink)  
 
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007 thanks for posting that. Great to here the wee fella will make, a physical recovey, at least.

The video certainly got the emotions going....
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