Landing at closed aerodromes
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I'm not so sure about that FlyByMike
Locally to me two airfields have gone unlicensed the only reason they were licensed was so they could over flight training. Nothing has changed apart from these airfields are now more cost effective than before.
Two other airfields local to me now offer flight training now that the requirement for a licensed airfield was dropped.
Now from a general aviation point of view that has to be a good thing.
Locally to me two airfields have gone unlicensed the only reason they were licensed was so they could over flight training. Nothing has changed apart from these airfields are now more cost effective than before.
Two other airfields local to me now offer flight training now that the requirement for a licensed airfield was dropped.
Now from a general aviation point of view that has to be a good thing.
Join Date: May 2001
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Trouble is that compulsorily icensed airfield A probably can't compete on costs with unlicensed airfield B, for retaining flying schools.
Granted there are obvious advantages with no requirement for licensing, but the associated dangers also need to be recognised and monitored.
Granted there are obvious advantages with no requirement for licensing, but the associated dangers also need to be recognised and monitored.
Join Date: May 2013
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I was picked up by a relative at Cranfield, had a nice day flying, and when we returned were a little surprised to be told by ATC the airfield would be closed by the time we got there. So we returned to his home base at Southend, and drove back
I went back to the tower the next day to pay the landing fees for the morning and was chatting to the guys about the opening times. They explained the airport used to be 'fully open' from 9 to 5 with atc and fire/fuel/coffee etc, and 'a bit open' out of hours, with just some empty concrete to land and park on, mainly used by the planes based there.
The owners had changed that to either "very open" or "very closed". the word insurance was mentioned.
I guess other airfields are in the same situation. If you let someone use your runway and they mess it up, and you weren't there to guide them, and mop up, it's your problem, not the pilots.
I went back to the tower the next day to pay the landing fees for the morning and was chatting to the guys about the opening times. They explained the airport used to be 'fully open' from 9 to 5 with atc and fire/fuel/coffee etc, and 'a bit open' out of hours, with just some empty concrete to land and park on, mainly used by the planes based there.
The owners had changed that to either "very open" or "very closed". the word insurance was mentioned.
I guess other airfields are in the same situation. If you let someone use your runway and they mess it up, and you weren't there to guide them, and mop up, it's your problem, not the pilots.
Avoid imitations
I guess other airfields are in the same situation. If you let someone use your runway and they mess it up, and you weren't there to guide them, and mop up, it's your problem, not the pilots.
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Prior to the relaxation of the rules, the ANO specifically stated that flights for the purpose of training for a licence or rating were confined to Licensed Aerodromes. Whilst flights into farm strips had "training value" they could not be logged as part of the experience required for the issue of a licence.
Anyone who has made a licence application based on the use of aerodromes where training was illegal could be subject to prosecution under the Act!
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Ye Gods I sometimes despair of the human race 
a closed airfield is like a closed retail store, garage, theatre. It means that it is not accessible without specific negotiation with the owner.
An unlicensed airfield is just an airfield which can't be used by any operator that requires a licensed airfield. Private flights and training flights in a light aircraft are highly unlikely to need a licensed airfield since the requirement for training to take place from licensed airfields was removed in 2010. Even before then flights with instructors could include unlicensed and even foreign airfields!
a closed airfield is like a closed retail store, garage, theatre. It means that it is not accessible without specific negotiation with the owner. An unlicensed airfield is just an airfield which can't be used by any operator that requires a licensed airfield. Private flights and training flights in a light aircraft are highly unlikely to need a licensed airfield since the requirement for training to take place from licensed airfields was removed in 2010. Even before then flights with instructors could include unlicensed and even foreign airfields!
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On my QXC 2013 I was on my second land out downwind at Goodwood when I was asked to confirm that I was the student on QXC and then informed that I could no longer land as the airfield had become unlicensed (the fire engine had gone tech).
Not what I wanted to hear.
Cheers
John
Not what I wanted to hear.
Cheers
John
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I could no longer land as the airfield had become unlicensed
I cannot get my head around the way things are done in Britain.
Is it the case that a pilot on a training flight cannot land at an airport that does not have a fire engine?
Is it any different if the flight is just a regular private (non-training) flight?
Is it the case that a pilot on a training flight cannot land at an airport that does not have a fire engine?
Is it any different if the flight is just a regular private (non-training) flight?
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No, there is absolutely no need for a fire engine, and it's perfectly OK to land at an unlicensed strip on a training flight with the owners permission and if the instructor is satisfied that the risk is acceptable.
I don't know the specific rules, but I wouldn't have thought this was a good idea (or permitted) for a solo student though
For a non-training flight, you can do whatever you want. Land in a farmer's field if you wish!
I don't know the specific rules, but I wouldn't have thought this was a good idea (or permitted) for a solo student though
For a non-training flight, you can do whatever you want. Land in a farmer's field if you wish!
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I don't believe fire cover is required since 2010 when it became possible to train at unlicensed airfields.
Perhaps the scenario described could be clarified by CAA?
As for normal non training flight, I would be in deep trouble as would a few others flying into unmanned farm strips if fire engines were required.
Perhaps a case of gold plating a non existing any longer rule.
Perhaps the scenario described could be clarified by CAA?
As for normal non training flight, I would be in deep trouble as would a few others flying into unmanned farm strips if fire engines were required.
Perhaps a case of gold plating a non existing any longer rule.
Perhaps the scenario described could be clarified by CAA?
G
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I suspect they wouldn't give an answer, and like all organs of government would simply refer you to the relevant legislation and effectively place the onus on the pilot/instructor to interpret it and make a decision.
That way, contentious or incorrect answers are avoided and all possible future courses of action left open.
That way, contentious or incorrect answers are avoided and all possible future courses of action left open.
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I once flew into an airfield in Norfolk. I'm pretty thorough (or so I thought) with the preflight, nothing was amiss and PPR not required. Off I went.
Landed and it was like I had landed on Mars. Not a soul about. Nothing in the NOTAMs, on their website or the Pooleys flight guide to suggest they were closed.
I think somebody else also made that mistake as I found a note attached to the clubhouse doors left by a pilot a few hours earlier asking where everybody was!
Landed and it was like I had landed on Mars. Not a soul about. Nothing in the NOTAMs, on their website or the Pooleys flight guide to suggest they were closed.
I think somebody else also made that mistake as I found a note attached to the clubhouse doors left by a pilot a few hours earlier asking where everybody was!
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If an airfield is closed, it becomes a field (and obviously unlicensed).
In the UK, you can land anywhere provided you have permission of the landowner. Therefore all you need is the permission of the owner.
In the UK, you can land anywhere provided you have permission of the landowner. Therefore all you need is the permission of the owner.
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"a closed airfield is like a closed retail store, garage, theatre. It means that it is not accessible without specific negotiation with the owner."
NO. A "closed airfield" in the uk means whatever the operator wants it to. It is common for an airfield to be closed - no fuel, no food, no maintenance, no office to pay landing fee, but you can fly with prior permission. All a pilot has to do is check what the operator had in mind by using the word closed, not a big issue.
Rod1
NO. A "closed airfield" in the uk means whatever the operator wants it to. It is common for an airfield to be closed - no fuel, no food, no maintenance, no office to pay landing fee, but you can fly with prior permission. All a pilot has to do is check what the operator had in mind by using the word closed, not a big issue.
Rod1
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The last two posts and indeed the one that Rod 1 quotes are all saying the correct situation but much the same thing as many others are saying, just with different emphasis, so can we stop arguing about the small nuances!
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so can we stop arguing about the small nuances!
In 38 years of flying, I have only once been so challenged. I landed on a nice grass runway, from which years earlier, I had flown the 172 based there. Since, the runway had been sold, and made truly private. I was politely asked to not return, and I never have.
If pilots are going to "explore" these opportunities, it would be wise to be well familiar with any insurance limitations which might apply to where you land the plane. Some policies will state runways which are "open" only. You'd not want to have an oops on a closed runway (without very good cause), to then find out that the aircraft insurance will not pay for the damage - or recovery! That is not a good example of begging forgiveness rather than permission, that answer may be a cold "No"!
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"a closed airfield is like a closed retail store, garage, theatre. It means that it is not accessible without specific negotiation with the owner."
NO. A "closed airfield" in the uk means whatever the operator wants it to. It is common for an airfield to be closed - no fuel, no food, no maintenance, no office to pay landing fee, but you can fly with prior permission. All a pilot has to do is check what the operator had in mind by using the word closed, not a big issue.
Rod1
NO. A "closed airfield" in the uk means whatever the operator wants it to. It is common for an airfield to be closed - no fuel, no food, no maintenance, no office to pay landing fee, but you can fly with prior permission. All a pilot has to do is check what the operator had in mind by using the word closed, not a big issue.
Rod1
astonishing as it may seem to those with English as a second language, Rod1 and I are saying much the same thing. If the airfield, store, garage etc. is stated to be closed and you are able to contact the owner or someone in authority over the premises, you may be able to persuade them to let you in, otherwise you don't go
It is common for an airfield to be closed - no fuel, no food, no maintenance, no office to pay landing fee
A large proportion of airfields over here don't have any of those things. If a landing fee is to be paid you put your money in the slot in the wall.
I once flew into an airfield in Norfolk. I'm pretty thorough (or so I thought) with the preflight, nothing was amiss and PPR not required. Off I went.
Landed and it was like I had landed on Mars. Not a soul about. Nothing in the NOTAMs, on their website or the Pooleys flight guide to suggest they were closed.
I think somebody else also made that mistake as I found a note attached to the clubhouse doors left by a pilot a few hours earlier asking where everybody was!
Landed and it was like I had landed on Mars. Not a soul about. Nothing in the NOTAMs, on their website or the Pooleys flight guide to suggest they were closed.
I think somebody else also made that mistake as I found a note attached to the clubhouse doors left by a pilot a few hours earlier asking where everybody was!
