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Landing at closed aerodromes

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Landing at closed aerodromes

Old 2nd Jan 2015, 22:12
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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As I said before 27/09, you and I will never understand the weird way they do things over there.
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Old 2nd Jan 2015, 23:09
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Many of us over here wish we were over there.
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Old 3rd Jan 2015, 00:40
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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A pretty common occurrence where I fly.
As I have now learnt! At the time I had about 80hrs under the belt and was a little baffled having only flown into more popular airfields before.
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Old 3rd Jan 2015, 01:26
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Ontrack

As I said before 27/09, you and I will never understand the weird way they do things over there.
Yep, sadly I think you're right. We don't realise how good we have it over here.
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Old 3rd Jan 2015, 06:25
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Are you two NZ folks even reading the posts? For everyone saying you can't do something, there are several people pointing out that it is nonsense.
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Old 3rd Jan 2015, 07:02
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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The point people don't seem to get, why is a mystery, is that closure and openness have nothing to do with facilities. It's to do with what the owner of the field has decided. Thus a major airport with facilities to cope with airliners might be closed to all traffic for some reason and a farm strip with no facilities at all might open to all comers.

It then behoves us as pilots to find out about and respect the wishes of the owner, apart from some legal implications in some cases, it's just good manners

Licensing is an entirely different matter and the need for a licensed aerodrome is covered by the aircraft operator's activities. Most activities including training, involving a light aircraft do not require a licensed aerodrome, certain commercial activities would need such an aerodrome, but this forum is about private flying.
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Old 3rd Jan 2015, 08:36
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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stevelup
Are you two NZ folks even reading the posts? For everyone saying you can't do something, there are several people pointing out that it is nonsense.
Yep been reading all the posts, it's pretty hard to sort the wheat from the chaff. It seems from reading most posts, Closed doesn't really mean closed at all just ring up the owner to get permission to land - is it open or closed or just open to approved pilots?
NO. A "closed airfield" in the uk means whatever the operator wants it to.
Then you get this
It is common for an airfield to be closed - no fuel, no food, no maintenance, no office to pay landing fee
So is it facility related? JohnM clears that up in post #66. This makes sense
The point people don't seem to get, why is a mystery, is that closure and openness have nothing to do with facilities. It's to do with what the owner of the field has decided.
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Old 3rd Jan 2015, 09:00
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Clearly the are some cultural differences in this discussion.

In this part of the world airports don't just close at the whim of the operator.

There would have to be a compelling reason for any registered or certified airport not to be available, and I would expect to see that reason stated in a NOTAM.

For example, I remember Rockhampton airport in Queensland was once closed for a couple of days because most of the runway was under floodwaters.

Sure, runways are sometimes closed at short notice because of disabled aircraft (e.g. wheels-up landing).

Generally, however, airports are open all day every day (and all night if lighting is available, and it usually is).

Also, with very few exceptions, prior permission is not required. And why should it be? Airports are part of the national infrastructure and are there to be used.

Obviously you need permission to use a private farm strip, except perhaps in the case of a forced landing.
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Old 3rd Jan 2015, 10:43
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Airports are part of the national infrastructure
sounds like communism.

In Europe, especially the smaller fields tend to be privately owned and privately operated. Which, as has been pointed out ad nauseum, leaves a lot of liberty to the owner/operator.
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Old 3rd Jan 2015, 11:07
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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I do find it a bit strange that some people based outside of the UK just can't accept that in the UK, the 'rules' are different.

Airfields in the UK tend for the most part to be privately owned and those owners can dictate whether or not they want people to land there.

Sometimes their hands are tied by local planning restrictions, often brought about by the local population who view an airfield as an annoyance - not an asset to the community.

Different countries different rules and laws and ways of life. Just over the water from here, everyone drives on the opposite side of the road - surely that is just plain wrong?
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Old 3rd Jan 2015, 13:36
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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I am just wondering how many UK grass strips can actually take any form of wheeled transport at this time of year... (hint... It's Wet.)

Isle of Wight Airport Sandown - EGHN - Home
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Old 3rd Jan 2015, 18:07
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Compton Abbas (EGHA) is a grass strip and still accepts traffic

I guess it depends on how bad the "wet" has been.

As for Sandown, I have been there a few times over last year, and they have put in a new ditch and drainage and have done a lot of work on the field.
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Old 3rd Jan 2015, 19:16
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Compton Abbas has the advantage that the water can really only go way from the airfield, unfortunately not the case for most grass strips.
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Old 3rd Jan 2015, 20:08
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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smarthawke
I do find it a bit strange that some people based outside of the UK just can't accept that in the UK, the 'rules' are different.

Airfields in the UK tend for the most part to be privately owned and those owners can dictate whether or not they want people to land there.

Sometimes their hands are tied by local planning restrictions, often brought about by the local population who view an airfield as an annoyance - not an asset to the community.

Different countries different rules and laws and ways of life. Just over the water from here, everyone drives on the opposite side of the road - surely that is just plain wrong?
I understand the rules might be different, my reason for posting was to do with the use of the term "Closed" and what constituted a closed airfield.

It would seem your rules are the same as here in the regard that over here use of any private airfield (whether it be a farm paddock or a sealed strip with full facilities) requires permission from the owner. Public airfields are just that, and are freely available for all to use.

Some on here seem to infer a private airfield is closed when in fact all that is needed is the owners permission to use that strip. This was the point of confusion.
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Old 4th Jan 2015, 00:29
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Gosh...

Public airfields are just that, and are freely available for all to use.
Yes, if they are "open". EVERY public airfield has an authority which operates it - person, committee, council, whatever. That entity can declare the airfield closed any time they want. Or, I as a firefighter I can, if I'm attending to an accident there. If the airfield is declared closed by an authority [which could include emergency services], it is closed, and landing there would be at least trespassing, if not an offense.

I have personally closed a public airfield, by phoning flight service, identifying myself as a firefighter, and instructing a notam be issued closing the airfield due to a fatal accident. Then I parked a fire truck in the middle of the runway, for the benefit of those who don't check notams. That airfield was then closed - no negotiation. The airfield "authority" did not yet know that I had closed the airfield, but it was closed. Indeed, he never found out that I closed the airfield, as he was the fatality. If a pilot had landed there during the closed time, I would have had that pilot violated.

Some on here seem to infer a private airfield is closed when in fact all that is needed is the owners permission to use that strip. This was the point of confusion.
A private airfield is closed if the owner does anything which indicates it is closed. In absence of closing action on the owner's part, it is only "open" if you have the owner's explicit permission to operate there then. Otherwise, you are trespassing, though happily, most private airfield operators are gracious about this.

It would be presumptuous to assume that you can land wherever you like (trespass) without assuring the "open" [to you] status of the airfield. Sometimes people get away with presumptuous, but it's still presumptuous, it's not "open".

My 2 cents worth, as a private airfield owner, and formally, an employee of a public airfield operator.
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Old 4th Jan 2015, 00:46
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Just to put in my two pennorth FWIW. I might be totally off the ball here but I think in places like the US most airfields are owned by the municipality? They are public places, like a bus station. In the UK most airfields are owned by private individuals, and I don't mean that they own an airport but the strip is actually on their land. Indeed you are literally landing in their back yard in a lot of cases. They have the strip for their own use and they let other people use it because they are nice sort of people. Like if you have a big drive you might let the neighbour use it.
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Old 4th Jan 2015, 01:18
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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in places like the US most airfields are owned by the municipality? They are public places, like a bus station.
Yes, many airfields in the US and Canada are municipally owned, but they can still be closed.

Any competent authority can close the municipal airport (or the bus station). This would include the operator, the police, the fire department, and Transport Canada.

For example, near me, CYOO, Oshawa, Ontario.

From the Canadian Flight Supplement, in part, (my bold)

OSHAWA
ON
CYOO
REF
N43 55 22 W78 53 42 Adj N 11W
UTC-5(4) Elev 459 ́ VTA A5000
F-21 LO6 T2 HI5 CAP
OPR
Muni 905-576-8146 Cert
1130-0330Z O/T PPR

The airport is public, and open from 1130 to 0330 UTC. The competent authority (the Airport Manager - Stephen ( I know him well)) can close the airport, and does every night.

So when it is not open, it is closed. But, with prior permission you could land there. Only an air ambulance, or police aircraft will easily get that permission. That permitted aircraft would have permission to land, but the airport will still be closed to everyone else.

Meigs field, where I used to fly as a destination from time to time, was also closed.

Meigs Field - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To be sure there was no misunderstanding, they dug up the runway one night, and the remaining aircraft had to be trucked out. No one liked it, and the authority who closed it was not regarded as competent, but it was closed.

"Closed" is an absolute term, not subject to misunderstanding. Operation only by exemption, or opening.
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Old 4th Jan 2015, 09:19
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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OK, lets try another angle. If an airfields hours of operation are say 9 am to 5 pm local, is it closed outside these hours, or open with no services?

Rod1
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Old 4th Jan 2015, 09:24
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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That's not another angle, Rod, that is twisting of words. You can forever play on the shades of meaning between "operational", "available", "accessible" &c &c ; it makes no change to the simple facts, as hard to accept/digest as they seem to be to some people.
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Old 4th Jan 2015, 10:00
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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OK, lets try another angle. If an airfields hours of operation are say 9 am to 5 pm local, is it closed outside these hours, or open with no services?

Rod1
I assume this confusion arises because you live in the Midlands and so English isn't your first language the answer is "it's closed" .
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