100LL for Classic Vehicles ?
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100LL for Classic Vehicles ?
Myself and a few acquaintances run some Classic Motor-Cycles and Cars, and have been thinking of using 100LL to avoid the problems which can now exist, such as...
The use of Ethanol in fuel has caused some problems by softening Fibre-Glass Tanks. The alternative fuel is of a low octane rating and gives 'pinking' problems on some high compression engines.
On some Classic Motor Cars the exhaust valve seats really require some lead in the fuel to prevent early erosion.
I know the LL means Low Lead, but surely Low Lead is better than No Lead at all.
Some guys have been fouling plugs on two stroke engines, the use of a hotter plug cures the fouling, but causes some pre-ignition during quick throttle openings.
Has anyone used this Avgas, and does it cure most problems?
The use of Ethanol in fuel has caused some problems by softening Fibre-Glass Tanks. The alternative fuel is of a low octane rating and gives 'pinking' problems on some high compression engines.
On some Classic Motor Cars the exhaust valve seats really require some lead in the fuel to prevent early erosion.
I know the LL means Low Lead, but surely Low Lead is better than No Lead at all.
Some guys have been fouling plugs on two stroke engines, the use of a hotter plug cures the fouling, but causes some pre-ignition during quick throttle openings.
Has anyone used this Avgas, and does it cure most problems?
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hello from the USA... I don't know the laws in Wales, but here it is very hard to buy 100LL from an airport and put it directly into an automobile or motorcycle.
The problem is the road tax imposed on autogas vs the taxes on flying gas
so, do check. I once put 100 ll into my 1965 oldsmobile and it ran fine...no knocking!
be well
The problem is the road tax imposed on autogas vs the taxes on flying gas
so, do check. I once put 100 ll into my 1965 oldsmobile and it ran fine...no knocking!
be well
Whether it's illegal or not, the fuel duty in Wales (or for that matter the rest of the United Kingdom) is higher on AVGAS than MOGAS, so I can't see the powers that be getting overly irate about it.
100LL actually contains about 3 times the lead of the old BS4040 4-star, so you're more likely to have a problem with too much lead, than too little.
My suggestion would be to run your vehicle with maybe a 1/4 full tank, initially with a mix of 4 parts BS EN228 unleaded MOGAS and 1 part AVGAS 100LL, see how that works, if no adverse effects try 3:2 or 7:3 mix, and iteratively find a mix that works - which might prove to be 100% AVGAS 100LL of course.
The other thing to consider is using AVAS UL91, which is alcohol free, and lead free, but probably much closer to the fuel that old vehicles were designed around than EN228 or 100LL. If your main issue is with synthetic materials being degraded by ethanol, rather than lack of lead, that may be the better choice.
100LL actually contains about 3 times the lead of the old BS4040 4-star, so you're more likely to have a problem with too much lead, than too little.
My suggestion would be to run your vehicle with maybe a 1/4 full tank, initially with a mix of 4 parts BS EN228 unleaded MOGAS and 1 part AVGAS 100LL, see how that works, if no adverse effects try 3:2 or 7:3 mix, and iteratively find a mix that works - which might prove to be 100% AVGAS 100LL of course.
The other thing to consider is using AVAS UL91, which is alcohol free, and lead free, but probably much closer to the fuel that old vehicles were designed around than EN228 or 100LL. If your main issue is with synthetic materials being degraded by ethanol, rather than lack of lead, that may be the better choice.
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The power boat community years ago used to call at Barton to load a tanker trailer with Avgas, but after a while, it was stopped. You needed to prove the fuel was for aviation use before it could be sold.
I don't know if that was a local decision by the club, or imposed by fuel tax rules (just because it's expensive doesn't mean it meets the tax laws for vehicles).
I don't know if that was a local decision by the club, or imposed by fuel tax rules (just because it's expensive doesn't mean it meets the tax laws for vehicles).
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The "Low Lead" suffix refers to how much lead it contains compared to previous blends of AVGAS, not motor fuel.
I looked into the use of 100LL AVGAS in my competition car's engine. If I recall correctly, it contains between four and five times what used to be in 4 star petrol. I added one gallon of 100LL to four and a half gallons of unleaded and the car ran very well indeed.
I looked into the use of 100LL AVGAS in my competition car's engine. If I recall correctly, it contains between four and five times what used to be in 4 star petrol. I added one gallon of 100LL to four and a half gallons of unleaded and the car ran very well indeed.
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A more cost effective solution to running a Classic car instead of running it on stupidly expensive Avgas is to use a fuel additive like Millers sell. This is a far better solution.
Classic Fuel Additives | Millers Oils
Classic Fuel Additives | Millers Oils
I used AVGAS 100LL in my drag-kart which had a 250cc Honda 2-stroke engine Sometimes difficult to start but when running it was superb, especially as I had a 'skimmed' cylinder head with a squish clearance about half standard (gawd knows what the C/R was!). Having said that, I understand from microlighting that any leaded fuel can be detrimental to 2-strokes in the long run, but in drag racing, you don't run the engine very long so it doesn't matter as much as (say) a circuit racer.
Several 4 - stroke operators at the drag racing used 100LL too.
Several 4 - stroke operators at the drag racing used 100LL too.
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Thanks Shoestring for the link to the additives, one part of which forecast impending doom for all planes or kit-cars that have alloy tanks... quote....
'Ethanol is also corrosive to other metallic components including zinc, brass, lead and aluminium which will degrade over time under prolonged exposure to ethanol.'
btw, nobody seems to suffer much from 'Plug Wiskering' now, it was often found in the days of 5 Star fuel (101+ octane).
'Ethanol is also corrosive to other metallic components including zinc, brass, lead and aluminium which will degrade over time under prolonged exposure to ethanol.'
btw, nobody seems to suffer much from 'Plug Wiskering' now, it was often found in the days of 5 Star fuel (101+ octane).
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As I understand it, in the UK, the fuel duty on avgas is lower than that on motor fuel and for that reason HMCR can prosecute if they find avgas being used in motor vehicles.
Why not just use the old four star which is still available at selected locations throughout the UK and easier to buy than trying to persuade an airfield to sell you avgas in jerry cans.
Why not just use the old four star which is still available at selected locations throughout the UK and easier to buy than trying to persuade an airfield to sell you avgas in jerry cans.
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Its actually illegal to use Avgas as a road fuel.........
It's not just the duty difference it's also the pollution. It's lead content is way over the legal limit.
It's not just the duty difference it's also the pollution. It's lead content is way over the legal limit.
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A more cost effective solution to running a Classic car instead of running it on stupidly expensive Avgas is to use a fuel additive like Millers sell.
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Bose-x,
Most people are aware that it's illegal. Strangely enough, it's legal to buy unleaded fuel and add tetra ethyl lead to the fuel tank yourself.
Most people are aware that it's illegal. Strangely enough, it's legal to buy unleaded fuel and add tetra ethyl lead to the fuel tank yourself.
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A friend has 3 classic bikes, Gold Star, Road Rocket and Triton... kept under wraps ina heated,insulated garage. Come the spring, bad starting , worse running.. The Ethanol -containing fuel had eaten away the fine-gauze filter on the petrol tap and also blocked the carb. jets with gunge.
Boil in vinegar to clean. throw away the green-tinted stale fuel.
Boil in vinegar to clean. throw away the green-tinted stale fuel.
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That's bad news Steve, I have just bought some jets for Mikuni Carbs and they are made of brass, as I suspect most carb jets will be.
I read on a Racing Fuels website *, that each Petrol/Avgas has a slightly different Specific Gravity, so in theory needs different jets... Maybe not such a problem on planes with Mixture controls, but do Rotax engines have a mixture control?
* racing gasoline ? Speed Talk
I read on a Racing Fuels website *, that each Petrol/Avgas has a slightly different Specific Gravity, so in theory needs different jets... Maybe not such a problem on planes with Mixture controls, but do Rotax engines have a mixture control?
* racing gasoline ? Speed Talk
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I have a 1980 Moto Morini that will only run well on higher octane fuel. For example the Shell V power type of fuel. I tried Avgas 100LL from the flying club. It was a good price as it was the ex daily test samples. I have used it straight and it runs brilliantly but also found that runing it with 1/4 to 1/3 100LL worked well.
I now have a lead substitute slug in the tank I think it is tin, not sure if it works or not but still no burnt out valves many years later.
I now have a lead substitute slug in the tank I think it is tin, not sure if it works or not but still no burnt out valves many years later.
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Bose-x,
Most people are aware that it's illegal. Strangely enough, it's legal to buy unleaded fuel and add tetra ethyl lead to the fuel tank yourself.
Most people are aware that it's illegal. Strangely enough, it's legal to buy unleaded fuel and add tetra ethyl lead to the fuel tank yourself.
My friend got fined SIX HUNDRED quid last year for using Avgas in his V8 Landrover.......
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4x4 Club green lanes day. We all got dipped, assume they were actually looking for Red. They DNA test the fuel with an analyser at the side of the road and can identify exactly what's in the tanks.
There was also one caught using heating oil!!
There was also one caught using heating oil!!