Jabiru engined a/c Limitations

[ecosse]

seen this and wondered what everyone makes of it?

http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_asset...c-cd1425ss.pdf

any Jab owners more worried?

Kenny

[ecosse]

https://www.facebook.com/JabiruAircraft?fref=ts

here is there face tube page if anyones interested

Kenny

[fujii]

Also covered in:
The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions - PPRuNe Forums

[Shoestring Flyer]

And from earlier this year on the Pacific forum:-

http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...xperience.html

[Steevo25]

As an owner of a Jabiru Aircraft, I find it worrying on my part that I have to sort of agree with CASA. Although the design of the Jabiru engine should mean that it is bullet proof (not really much to go wrong), there were many design flaws from the start that Jabiru refused to acknowledge or address.


Instead what Jabiru did was sneak in changes to later builds of the engine but left owners of earlier engines with nothing but large bills. Their customer service has been atrocious with no support to owners that have had problems. Consequently, a lot of those older engines are now showing their age and I suspect failing. My engine was an earlier engine and I have had to spend significant amounts of money getting it 'up-to-date'. I have basically been paying for correcting the bad design that Jabiru did. Most of the parts I have chosen not to replace with Jabiru parts but rather CAMiT parts. Ironically, CAMiT manufacturer the engines for Jabiru but have recognised the problems and have made modified parts that cure them, but Jabiru still insist that CAMiT manufacturer their engines to Jabiru's design and do not incorporate those changes. Jabiru, however, have even released a letter from their CEO criticising owners for using any of these parts. Rodney Stiff released a letter that was not only condescending to owners but also stated that Jabiru knew best.


In short, Jabiru have had this coming for a long time. I am hoping that this will be a kick up the backside for them and there is only really 2 outcomes. Either Jabiru will start to take notice of owner's comments or they will sink and the engine will just become part of Australian history.


The unfortunate thing is that the Jabiru engine has the basis to become a very good, light and reliable engine and there is no reason it shouldn't be other than Jabiru's arrogance in responding to known problems.

[FleetFlyer]

I'm an ex-Jabiru powered aircraft owner and have flown Jabiru powered aircraft for hundreds of hours. I was consistently impressed by the engine and was happy to cross the Channel behind it on several occasions.

I am aware that it has been developed over the years to address shortcomings, but this CASA document is going too far. Its going to be massively damaging to Jabiru and is working against them to get them to improve their prodcut rather than with them. How are they going to be able to afford the development work to eradicate the faults if they can't sell any more engines because everyone has been scared off? Don't forget that the engines they'll be selling now already incorporate many of the improvements. Its the older engines that allegedly have the design flaws.

Hopefully someone from the LAA will be along soon and provide stats for Jabiru vs Rotax 912 failures. I'll be surprised if the Jab is as bad as the nay-sayers would have it.

[Steevo25]

The motion is no longer proceeding. CASA have apparently reached an understanding with Jabiru over the issues and for the moment, the proposal will not go ahead. It does go on to say that Jabiru do have work to do.


It certainly would not have been in my best interests for the motion to go ahead as it would instantly de-value my aircraft. But if good comes out of it and Jabiru start to listen to their customers then it will all have not been a waste of time.

[Shoestring Flyer]

But the damage has been done hasn't it to Jabiru's already shaky reputation in the marketplace.
CASA must have been severely exasperated by the Jabiru factory's current performance to go to the lengths of the last couple of days...and it is only a temporary stay of execution it seems at the moment.
I suspect that there has been many previous meetings and promises before today.

[Mandator]

Full CASA statement and extension of consultation period here:

http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_asset...ion-period.pdf

[Silvaire1]

seen this and wondered what everyone makes of it?

I feel vaguely embarrassed for the national government that would write these missives in the form presented. No mention of the legal process being undertaken or the definition/limits of authority, no reference to variations in regulatory responsibility associated with different airworthiness or certification categories, no mention of a proposed airworthiness directive, or specific technical problems, specific engine types, research that's been undertaken or anything that would lead one to confidence. It looks like government gossip inviting public gossip, in the service of arbitrary power, wielded by petty bureaucrats.

Before government takes public action to sully the reputation of private tax-paying companies and reduce the value of private property its generally considered a good idea that they have some technically documented basis for doing so. Their action should be backed up by specific legal authority, and include a data-backed, defensible proposal on which the public can comment based on the detailed facts presented. I'm certainly glad that CASA has no influence on me, and to a lesser extent glad that I don't own or otherwise have a stake in Jabiru products that are falling victim to CASA's apparent amateurism.

[gasax]

I have some sympathy for Silvaire's tirade from the 'land of the free'.

But equally I know a couple of people who have and currently have Jabiru engines aircraft. Compared to even an ancient Lyco they have 'issues', significantly more often and in a bigger way than any modern engine should.

I am surprised how such a simple concept can fail in some many different ways. Even more disappointing is how the Jabiru's 'improvements' are introduced generally without any background, justification or admission of a problem and frequently prove to be even less reliable than the initially problematic part.

There seems to be a serious negligent approach to testing and quality of these 'improvements' which have doubtless lead to this situation. Unfortunate for Jabiru, clumsy actions by CASA - but very much a situation of Jabiru's own making.

[tecman]

Your embarrassment might be salved if you took a bit of time to understand the regulatory and administration environments under which the vast majority of Australian Jabirus are flown. The LSA sector has effectively been outsourced to RA Aus, with the result that CASA probably has few in-house statistics on non-VH-registered aircraft. The RA Aus track record has been poor in a number of areas and CASA have recently insisted on the game being lifted.

As a GA pilot and RA Aus member, I have long been critical of the lack of a publicly accessible incident/accident database for LSAs. The Jabiru engine problems have been an open secret in the industry for a long time, but no comparative failure rate statistics have been available, in part (I'm told) because of RA Aus concerns about their legal position.

Old socialist that I am, I believe that outsourcing the LSA administration has turned out to be a bad idea; that a private company has been at best tardy in addressing fundamental safety issues; and that in this case CASA acted correctly in the face of a growing scandal.